Robert Griffin III

[jason j]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Struggles reading defenses and, at times, relies too much on his raw athleticism
Never had role in play calling at Baylor (can he call plays?)
Needs to work on his pre-snap defensive recognition
Lean frame (6-foot-2, 220 pounds) could lead to injuries in the pros
Shaky footwork Suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament in 2009
Mostly played from a spread offense
Fast, ¾ release that doesn’t quite come completely over-the-top. Combined with his height, batted balls could be a concern in the NFL
Has a tendency to throw behind his target on timing routes to the outside and throws over the middle. Can play very hurried and frenetic at times, and his pocket presence is average at best.
Doesn’t feel blindside pressure well, and takes a lot of hits and sacks and is prone to giving up fumbles because of backside pressure.
Can be indecisive in deciding whether to scramble or find someone downfield.

Obviously, I'm no pro. But I have a hard time believing that the NFLsoup guy an I are watching the same guy.

That said... It's very difficult to pin a college player down on what he can read and what he can't. Frankly they just don't have much shown to them. When you're playing out of a 4 and 5 wide set, the options are pretty limited. Will he have a learning curve at the next level? You bet. How steep? Hard to say. The threat of him running is going to simplify a lot of the looks he sees on the next level. 3-4 teams aren't going to be able to play the overload blitz game. They're going to have to play depth and contain. Just like in college, he's going to get a lot of man-fox looks, with DC's scared to death that he might find a crack and turn great coverage into a greyhound race.

By midway through 2011, his pre-snap looks were as good as anyone's in the game. He does have a tendency to keep everything alive a bit. Which is to say, even though the coverage would dictate that a given receiver or part of the field is out of the play, he still keeps his options open, knowing he can extend plays and come back. All told, I'm not sure I'd put reading defenses/pre-snap reads on his negatives list.

Play calling is one of the areas that separates Luck from Griffith. Luck has played and called a much more pro-ready offense. But I'm not sure how much of a problem that is really. Most college QB's come into the league without having called as much as a snap count up to that point.

I've certainly observed him getting quick at times. Little early on coming off his drop and throwing a smoke route. But I'm not really sure what the intention was. It looks a little like he's got a smoke called and the coverage is up, and he's not at liberty to change the play. But overall, I've seen very little but a smooth, patient athlete with an uncanny ability to get on balance and throw. And that's the thing maybe that impresses me most. He almost never has an off balance throw. Even when he's moving he manages (for the most part) to get his pins down and hips straight in order to throw the ball. That's half (or more) of the reason that he's so deadly accurate.

Most of the complaints about his feet are referring to the pitter-patter nature of his pocket activity. He tends to be up on his toes a bit. That's a matter of preference. Some guys like the heavy pocket guys: Roethlisberger, Brady, and, actually, Luck. Guys who it's difficult to get them off balance. You can't run by, grab a handful of jersey and think you can get them on the ground. Others like the bounce. John Gruden, for one, is a big fan of the "active" pocket. Go seven steps, set the mark for the DE's and pop-pop forward on those toes. Use the pocket. Don't just stand there. Read, rotate, read, rotate, fire. Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees. These guys like to have busy feet. Brett Favre was very active with his feet. But I can assure you he never had the balance or quickness that RGIII has.

When you watch the RGIII clips. Just watch his "snap-pow" delivery. Watch how fast he moves once he makes a decision with the ball, and in a heartbeat you see those feet snap into place... then "pow" the ball comes out. It's a thing of beauty.

Now, is he a little lazy at times getting to his spot from the shotgun? Yes. What I can't say is how much of that is accidental and how much of it is manipulating defenders. He's 5 years ahead of himself when it comes to moving safeties and linebackers with his eyes and shoulders. And the fact that he's so fast, and has such a great arm and release... he scares the living shit out of everybody in a different color jersey. He can pump fake to any part of the field. Why? Because he just might throw it... and complete. Every stutter freezes linebackers. Why? Because one false step and he's a vapor trail. It's really amazing the amount of pressure he puts on a defense... anyway.. I digress.

Now with all that.... Yes, he holds the ball too long. Gets hit too frequently. Has the old ACL. And, yes, can at times succumb to the belief that no matter what his athleticism can win the day.

Fortunately for whoever drafts him... most of the time he's right.

-jj

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by damajuki

Aw c'mon, KoK, this is supposed to be fun, remember? Don't get all sensitive on us.

Unfortunately I don't find 4-12 very fun. Seahawks anecdotes everytime one opens their mouths, us v. them ultimatums, being THE destination for all of the Presidents friends when they get fired, I don't find any of it fun honestly. It isn't about sensitivity, I just hate the people running this franchise. I despise them with a burning hatred. I hate what they're doing and the fucking mess they are creating. I hate that we're running an obsolete offense yet are reportedly in love with an overhyped QB prospect that doesn't even fit the offense we insist on running. I hate that the rumor floating around the NFL and not just the talking heads is we ARE willing to give up more than a little bit for HarrellIII.

Frankly this is why i've decided to lurk. I'm honestly NOT excited about any of it. I'm pissed off that we went 4-12 with an easy as hell schedule and heads aren't rolling and that Lerner is spouting his same old bullshit while cowering in his office intimidated because Fat Show can spit some football terminology his way. There's really not much of a point of me saying all that much Damaj when I really, REALLY have zero good to say about any of it. The only positive I can toss out? God I HOPE AND PRAY the Colts are dumb enough to draft HarrellIII and that we toss our 1sts to the Rams for Luck. That would turn my negative attitude around a bit.

Other than that? I just don't give a fuck anymore, this Franchise/F.O. makes me sick and I could care less what they do anymore.

[damajuki]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Unfortunately I don't find 4-12 very fun. Seahawks anecdotes everytime one opens their mouths, us v. them ultimatums, being THE destination for all of the Presidents friends when they get fired, I don't find any of it fun honestly. It isn't about sensitivity, I just hate the people running this franchise. I despise them with a burning hatred. I hate what they're doing and the fucking mess they are creating. I hate that we're running an obsolete offense yet are reportedly in love with an overhyped QB prospect that doesn't even fit the offense we insist on running. I hate that the rumor floating around the NFL and not just the talking heads is we ARE willing to give up more than a little bit for HarrellIII.

Frankly this is why i've decided to lurk. I'm honestly NOT excited about any of it. I'm pissed off that we went 4-12 with an easy as hell schedule and heads aren't rolling and that Lerner is spouting his same old bullshit while cowering in his office intimidated because Fat Show can spit some football terminology his way. There's really not much of a point of me saying all that much Damaj when I really, REALLY have zero good to say about any of it. The only positive I can toss out? God I HOPE AND PRAY the Colts are dumb enough to draft HarrellIII and that we toss our 1sts to the Rams for Luck. That would turn my negative attitude around a bit.

Other than that? I just don't give a fuck anymore, this Franchise/F.O. makes me sick and I could care less what they do anymore.

We need to cheer you up, buddy.

Look, I'm with you on the anti-Holmgren stuff. Really, I am. I'm not a fan of his attitude and I think you've more than made a case about the weak spots in his resume.

But it's pointless to hate, young Jedi. We're all along for the ride, wherever it ends up -- or not.

So we may as well cheer for whatever angle we like best. You seem to just like the "I want them all gone" angle. Okay, but that ain't gonna get you through the long nights, buddy.

As I said before, I'm coming from the "Get me a real damn fine QB prospect" angle now. And if that means Luck or RG3, then I'm all in. Because I can't take this utter stupidity on offense any more and it's a simple fact of the NFL today that top QBs are much more fun to watch play and develop.

Because if we're going to suck anyway, I want to see some damn fine flashy suck and not this three-yard-incompletion-and-a-cloud-of-dust kind of suck. RG3 will surely provide that, no?

[Flugel]

Terrific stuff about RGIII folks. I adored the videos from Gabe and liked the points JJ and others have made. I STILL think KOKs was right to question the similar passing game design to that of Texas Tech that once produced 48 TD passes from Harrell to just 9 INTs. I started to think of all the Big 12 QBs in previous years that looked All Galaxy statistically and I probably overthought it all because EVERY QB is different and unique.

I've never been good at pegging QBs EXCEPT when I've seen a kid transcend a college program from 1 level to another. That's basically what we're going to be asking of a QB prospect so I weigh it rather heavily. For example, Bernie Kosar led the Miami Hurricanes to a National Championship with names like Stanley Shakespeare and JC Penny at the WR positions. He CHANGED the level of excellence from Jim Kelly's 5 or 6 losses as a senior. Next thing you know the Michael Irvins and Andre Johnsons of America all wanted in there. Then he came to Cleveland and we didn't have to worry about a culture shock of what it takes to trascend us from losing to winning.

Joe Montana transcended Note Dame back to old comfort zones. One would be surprised that his college stats are WAY worse than his pro stats BUT the winning wasn't any different when he started. He had the magic so 4th round at the time was a steal even before the hindsight 20/20. Then he turned SF into an elite program.

Carson Palmer restored USC back to winning ways. His career was on track for great things before Pittsburgh took a knee and kept it during a 13-3 season for Cincy. He was on his way. Palmer brought USC back to an elite program and taking Cincy to 13-3 was pretty freain similar when you think about it.

Where am I going with this? The top 2 QBs this year have a lot in common with those guys I spoke of in terms of talent and leadership they possess. Andrew Luck and RGIII just took 2 college football programs from scratch to rankings they've never seen before with any other QB inclusive of John Elway or Jim Plunkett. I liked RGIII's weapons much better than the 3 TEs Luck was left with after his starting WR went down early in the year.

Anyway, I really enjoyed this thread. I'm at the point where I could feel really excited about adding him. My first impression I joined the bandwagon, then I rethought it and straddled the fence; so don't think you can't change my mind if you bring a substance deeper than "your point sucks." Just tell me why or show me why you feel differently like this thread accomplished and you'll get somewhere with me.

[Masters]

http://www.mockingthedraft.com/2011/...rt-griffin-iii

Baylor Quarterback Robert Griffin III was just named the 2011 Heisman Trophy winner. So while he's talk of the town, I thought I would re-post my film breakdown of him from way back in October (originally posted on Hogs Haven, then on Our Baylor Bears).
The games I based this breakdown on were the Texas A&M and TCU games earlier this season. But before we get to the film, what is it that we look for in a quarterback?
There are measurable's (agility, athleticism, durability, height, mobility, speed, strength and weight), intangibles (character, competitiveness, intelligence, leadership, toughness and work ethic) and football abilities (accuracy, arm strength, checking progressions, consistency, decision making, footwork, mechanics, pocket awareness, poise, reading coverage). Basically a long list of things we use to evaluate a quarterback, you get the idea.
So lets start with the measurable's. Griffin is listed as 6'2", 220 pounds, maybe an inch or so smaller than would be ideal but its about the right weight. CBS Sports attributes him with a 4.52 second 40 yard dash. In comparison onlyTyrod Taylor, who ran a 4.51, ran faster among quarterbacks at the combine last year. While the 4th overall pick of the draft, wide receiver A.J. Green, was only a shade faster. His athleticism saw him successful on the running track as well. From

Wikipedia" target="_blank">Wikipedia

Robert_Griffin_III

:

In track, he broke state records for the 110-meter hurdles. He ran the 110-meter hurdles in 13.55 seconds, and the 300-meter hurdles in 35.33 seconds. The 300-hurdles time was one-hundredth of a second short of breaking the national high school record. He was also a gold medalist in the 110 and 400-meter hurdles on the AAU track and the field circuit. He sprinted 13.46 in the 110-meter hurdles and 49.56 in the 400-meter hurdles as a junior in high school. In 2007, as a junior, he was rated the No. 1 high school 400-meter immediate hurdler in the country, and was tied at No. 1 for the 110-meter sprint hurdler in the nation. Also as a junior, he received the Gatorade Texas Boys Track and Field Athlete of the Year award.

The guy is more athletic than you could ask a quarterback to be. However, he has had injury troubles in the past, leading to durability questions. Griffin played less than a half of football in the 2009 season after suffering an ACL tear. He only played 25% of the 2010 season due to injuries that forced him to redshirt the year. This has lead to durability concerns, but he hasn't missed a game so far this season.
Then we have his intangibles, is he the kind of guy you want to be the leader in the locker room? Griffin is the son of two retired U.S. Army Sergeants. By all accounts, this has seen him brought up with a great work ethic and leadership ability. From interviews I've seen, he comes across as a genuine team player and good character guy. Quotes like these are music to NFL scouts and GM's ears:

"The biggest thing is trusting the guys around me," Griffin said. "I trust my offensive line, I trust the receivers that when the ball is in the air, they are going to be the ones who are catching it. They are going a great job of making plays all year." "As long as you go into the game with confidence in the people around you and the play-making ability of everybody else, it makes you a better player"

The rest of that story can be read here, it's a pretty good read. He puts his trust into his teammates, and they give him trust and respect back. Just as a side note he's majoring in political science, so he's not exactly a dumb jock either. There's not many arguments that can be made against Robert Griffin's intangibles, he ticks all of these boxes.
So, we've established he's very athletic for a quarterback and that he's everything you want as a leader in the locker room. But all of that is useless unless he can translate it to success on the football field. From the tape I've watched, he has no trouble doing so.
Accuracy:
Robert Griffin is currently averaging 78% completion rate for the season. But in college, that could be boosted by dink and dunk type offenses. So here's a few examples to prove he's a very accurate passer over different distances.

The receiver is running an eight yard in pattern. Griffin has to make sure he avoids the linebacker in the middle of the field but cant afford to overthrow it or the defender covering the receiver has a chance to make the play.

He not only avoids the defenders, but he hits the receiver perfectly in-stride and that allows him to run on for the first down in the huge open area.
But that's a throw you would expect a quarterback to make. This one is a much tighter throw. It does fall incomplete, but as you'll see that has nothing to do with Griffin.

Griffin is trying to fit this one in a tight space to his top receiver Kendall Wright on the crossing pattern.

The ball placement is superb, just over the out-stretched arm of the A&M defender (shades of the Aaron Rodgers touchdown throw over Troy Polamalu in the Super Bowl).

He hits Wright in-stride and exactly where the receiver would want the ball, Wright just drops it.
Or how about this throw in the red zone.

Wright ran a slant on this play, and comes back to get the ball.

Griffin throws it low so that Wright is the only person who can make a play on the ball. He does that and gets a touchdown.
One final display of his accuracy, on deep pattern up the sideline.

Griffin releases the deep ball to the top sideline. You can see the receiver yet because he is behind the scoreboard in the top corner. Take note, Griffin is on his own 18/19 yard line when the ball is thrown.

Again he manages to hit the receiver in-stride, and right into his hands where only he can make the play on the ball.

When the catch is made, the receiver is on the other side of the 50 yard line. Thats incredible accuracy over a 30+ yard pass. The receiver breaks a tackle and scores a touchdown.
Arm Strength:
Well if the last 30 yard throw wasn't enough to show off his arm strength, how about a couple of 50 yard throws?

Griffin has Wright on a deep vertical or a go route. Notice he's just behind the 50 yard line.

Griffin just overthrows the diving Wright. It's almost impressive that you can overthrow a receiver on a 50 yard pass.
Just in case you think these are fluke throws, I'll show you one more.

Another deep pattern, and again Griffin is on roughly the 50.

He not only hits his receiver this time, but puts it perfectly in his stride so that the receiver doesn't have to make any adjustments and pretty much guarantees the touchdown.
Still not satisfied, how about this 40 yarder against TCU.

Griffin winds up from the 40.

And almost effortlessly hits Wright perfectly for a big touchdown. Showing off not only his arm strength, but his deep ball accuracy as well. A lot of people believe his deep accuracy is his best quality.
Checking Progressions:
Admittedly, this isn't something he's asked to do all that often or if he is, the primary read gets open a lot! But still, he can do it, have a look.

On his initial drop back, he checks the short quick option.

He moves on to the slant route and realises it's covered.

He checks his final option and once he see's its open, he pulls the trigger.

He hits the receiver and gives him the chance to make a play, which he does by breaking a tackle and getting a first down.
Here's another example from the TCU game.

The blue line shows how he keeps his helmet aiming straight down-field to keep the safeties from reading him. Meanwhile he uses his eyes to check the first route at the top of the picture before realising its covered.

He moves onto his second read.

He see's that its open, and throws just in time as the TCU defender is closing down on him.

Griffin completes the pass for a first down and a big gain.
Mechanics and Footwork:
This is where some critics come in. Some people believe he has a tendency to have a bit of a wind-up before he throws, lengthening the release. I don't see this myself, on the contrary, he appears to have a very quick release in my opinion. Have a look at this play-action pass to the tight end.

The thing to look at in these pictures to determine the speed of the release is the defender circled in red. Griffin has to fake the hand-off and get the ball up from his waste to his release point.

The tight end is circled in red to show his target.

Now Griffin just begins his throwing motion, watch the circled foot of the defender.

Griffin gets the ball from his chest to nearly the point of release before the defender lands that foot.

The ball is out (I couldn't get a shot between these two frames, sorry) before the defender gets his other foot down. Plenty quick enough for me.
In terms of his release point, I take you back to an earlier picture.

As you can see, he steps nicely into his throws, transferring his weight to get a nice zip on the ball. He's got a nice high release. It's not a completely over the top release that you might see from a Peyton Manning or even an Andrew Luck, but it works for him, and he doesn't get a lot of passes batted down at the line.
His footwork is probably one of his biggest weaknesses and its not that bad. He does get "dancing feet" in the pocket while waiting for receivers to get open, but its nothing that NFL coaching can't fix.
Mobility:
This is another one of Griffin's biggest strengths. His mobility allows him to extend plays, roll outside the pocket and make good throws on the run. There's so many examples to choose from, but I think this one shows it best.

Initially Griffin looks to the top of the picture for the deep throw, but realises that its covered.

With pressure coming, Griffin decides to get out of the pocket.

What Griffin does really well is keep his eyes down-field the whole time, still looking for a receiver.

Griffin only takes his eyes away from receivers when he has a defender charging him down. He tucks the ball and protects it with one hand, while stiff arming the defender with the other to avoid being tackled.

Griffin manages to get the throw off at an awkward angle.

Not only managing to accurately hit the receiver, but put it in the only place that the defender can't get to. Baylor pick up the first down.
But these are just my views on Robert Griffin III. So I reached out to Dan Kadar, SB nation college scout over at Mocking the Draft. He put up his piece on Robert Griffin III over there, so go check that out. I asked him what he thought were some of his biggest strengths and weaknesses.

The biggest difference for Griffin this season has been the types of throws he's making. In the past, he was more of a short game thrower, which made him a product of the spread Baylor uses. This season he's making much more difficult throws. One of the things I think people don't notice about Griffin is how tough he is. For better or worse, he's not a quarterback who is going to slide when he takes off and runs.

The downside that remains is that he's still learning the play calling and how to go through his progressions. He's not asked in the Baylor offense to make many complex reads, so he's behind the curve in that area. He also has some lapses where he'll pull the ball down too quickly and run with the ball. It hasn't hurt him as much in college, but that sort of thing doesn't translate particularly well to the pros.

Thanks to Dan for taking the time out to respond.

[Flugel]

YOWSA! That was incredible Masters! Love the precision to the right places in tight spaces, the progressions, the precise deep throws over 30 yards, and the sideline rope that Wallace can't ever complete (and McCoy struggles with). We know he'll be mobile but that wasn't really a weakness here in 2011.

That's some great research that can make many skeptics feel better.

[next2nothing]

Agreed Flugs, great post Masters!

Simply awesome. I love seeing guys get broken down like this so you can actually see what the scouts are talking about when they say all the lingo that they do.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by next2nothing

Agreed Flugs, great post Masters!

Simply awesome. I love seeing guys get broken down like this so you can actually see what the scouts are talking about when they say all the lingo that they do.

Just passing on what Google found for me I am with you, I love seeing the detail break down like they did on that one.

[next2nothing]

Originally Posted by Masters

Just passing on what Google found for me I am with you, I love seeing the detail break down like they did on that one.

Idk what your opinion on RG3 is but I'll be honest, it's break downs like this and JJ's stuff that makes me want the Browns to grab him.

[Masters]

Same here N2N

[Solon16]

Originally Posted by Masters

Same here N2N

Good job mike...the info you have is from October too...I was at the Texas game vs. Baylor and I wish someone would breakdown that game film. He was incredible! He, ganaway and wright dropped 48 on the big 12 #1 defense...for all you haters out there...Texas has the most DB's in the NFL!

[hammertime]

could be a huge leap of faith going all out to get the guy?


i've always wanted Luck or the best playmaker available.

I'm weakening, just a bit though. (figured this guy would be there at 4 now it's looking like we gotta pony up and pay more.)

You know, people sing about McCoy. Do they sing about RG3?