Brink of War - North Korea

[Vegasdogg]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...korea_att.html

So WTF?

Are the Chinese and Russians going to watch us squirm?
Are we handcuffed because of our allies?
What is our move in all of this?
Do we allow China to hold out and not smack the NK leadership in the teeth, so that we expend our resources while they hold out?

Taiwan and S Korea are allies, but can we afford allies in the East anymore?

Jesus I can't believe I am asking these questions. We are the USA for crying out loud.

Iran
N Korea
Terrorists
Iraq
Afghanistan
Economy

Pick your poison......

[Danamal]

America signed it's own death warrant when we began importing everything and liquidating our own industrial capabilities,we make NOTHING.
We are a service oriented country and we shuffle money and were not doing that to well right now either.
Before you can police the world you need to have your own house in order.

On a side note N Korea has about as much of an army as Iraq so don't believe the hype,yeah they have troops but thats about it,there missiles are scud like and are of zero threat to us for now,there a very poor country who want a seat at the big table.

Iran is in the same boat as N Korea but to be fair we are right on there border telling them how to act and they feel threatened,we weren't so happy in 62 when we had missiles in Cuba so yeah there prez is a nut but the big picture is all about resources and who gets the big piece of the pie and were talking about oil.

We went into Iraq and just snatched France and Russia's deals right out of there hands because we wanted it and now you expect them to play nice?
I love our country and defended it but our diplomacy over the last few years hasn't been very clued into the long term peace and stability we would all like.
You make the deals that serve our interest the best and begin building and taking pride in our own and we will begin to see better days,there is no war on the horizon worth fighting when we have more pressing needs here in America.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Danamal

On a side note N Korea has about as much of an army as Iraq so don't believe the hype,yeah they have troops but thats about it,there missiles are scud like and are of zero threat to us for now,there a very poor country who want a seat at the big table.

They have developed enough high-tech weaponry from some Pakistani rocket scientists that they were able to sell them to the Iranians. The NK govt has access to some of the more sophisticated medium range rocket systems in the world.

What is worrisome is their reckless disregard for any convention or resolution they previously agree to, coupled with the fact that they sank a SK vessel a few months ago, and now they sent artillery into SK.

They want food and money. But don't think for one second that initially they cannot bring down some hardcore, catastrophic artillery barrages into SK in a matter of hours, before anyone knew they would actually take that next step.

What is incredibly sad is the amount of starvation on those NK people not in the military. We're talking Africa scales in terms of lack of nutrition and medicines. We don't know. Couple that with the brainwashing going on and it is downright scary the lack of judgment in that military.

They are very scary when you think of the hellfire they could "scud" into SK. And do they have a Nuke they're willing to try on some unsuspecting SK towns?


The issue for the US is time. We do not need to do anything right now, or maybe ever.

China may play the best in the Foreign Policy "waiting game" in the history of the world, but if that neighbor of theirs pisses us off enough so that we send a couple of Carrier Groups with Tomahawk, Maverick, and SM1/SM2 Extended Range Missles, those refugees aren't going to be in our country. They're going to be flooding China with that burden of around 500K people, and the world is watching. China can't just gun them down or starve them. And we all know China has poor emergency services.


China needs to eventually do something, we don't.

[Crow]

America, as much as people want to not hear this, needs to downside somewhat. We'll always be a huge presence in the world but we can't be everything to all people, the world police.

That said I have no idea what's best here. I hope war doesn't happen - we can't afford it.

[Danamal]

Well Vegas,
I think we can both agree that both N Korea and Iran are a nuisance more than a threat.
When you have a loud barking dog you get a muzzle not an M-80.
There is no need to start the war drum banging for every little piss ant wanna be country acting like a baby when we have troops who have done back to back to back tours of duty.

The more scary stat is forty percent of ALL service men and women coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan have some form of PTSD,lets take care of that rather than these silly little slogan type "support the troops" bumper stickers that to me seem programmed and dismissive.

How about STFU and help the troops,yeah I like that one better.

[Sez.EJ]

We have been wasting our money and young men (and women) the past 10 years in wasted efforts. I see no benefit from either of these wars we are currently in.. and I never did. When the terrorists blew up the towers in NY and we went to war.. My mother..Who grew up in Hitler's Germany said.. "HUH?.... They only blew up 2 buildings!!!... We went to war for that????? 2 buildings and a few hundred people? These people don't know what war is. "

Her town was firebombed 24 hours a day for a week straight..she was 15 years old.. Name of the town "Dresden, Germany" you can look it up..there are numerous books, if your interested..1,300 heavy bombers dropped more than 3,900 tons (yes tons) of high explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city. It remains one of the controversial bombings of the war because it was a civillian town with zero military installations. An area of 15 square kilometers was totally destroyed, among that 14,000 homes, 72 schools, 22 hospitals, 18 churches, 5 theatres, 50 banks and insurance companies, 31 department stores, 31 large hotels, 62 administration buildings, and factories. In total there were 222,000 apartments in the city... gone.. no military advantage was gained.

My mom, my grandmother, and my aunt ...walked out with the clothes on their backs. Literally..the clothes on their backs..nothing else came with them from their home. The had bags packed..went to visit a friend and never made it back to their home to get the bags they packed.. all was lost. but the most important thing.. their lives were spared.

So I can understand when she says.. "Hey.. they only blew up 2 buildings".. some 70 years later she still ducks at the sound of thunder. or even a firecracker.. ..the lingering after-affect of that week of bombing in the 1940's ... Mom is 86 now.

We have been at war for 10 years since and accomplished what??? What exactly have we accomplished?.. Sadaam is gone.. but it's no better than before. There is no peace in Iraq..no govenment stability.. They are perhaps worse than when Sadaam, was there. It's up for debate.. Afganistan.. we have accomplished nothing there.. there is no way to declare victory over terrorists..no country to capture..they have no country..they are everywhere..no way to declare a victory..Defend our homeland..that's it..these wars are a waste.. mostly of our young people and our tax dollars.

Wasted youth.. that's what I see .. wasted youth.. I served in the Marines..so I know what it's about.. and I feel sorry for the soldiers sent over to these wasted wars.. It's very sad..

[Danamal]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

We have been wasting our money and young men (and women) the past 10 years in wasted efforts. I see no benefit from either of these wars we are currently in.. and I never did. When the terrorists blew up the towers in NY and we went to war.. My mother..Who grew up in Hitler's Germany said.. "HUH?.... They only blew up 2 buildings!!!... We went to war for that????? 2 buildings and a few hundred people? These people don't know what war is. "

Her town was firebombed 24 hours a day for a week straight..she was 15 years old.. Name of the town "Dresden, Germany" you can look it up..there are numerous books, if your interested..1,300 heavy bombers dropped more than 3,900 tons (yes tons) of high explosive bombs and incendiary devices on the city. It remains one of the controversial bombings of the war because it was a civillian town with zero military installations. An area of 15 square kilometers was totally destroyed, among that 14,000 homes, 72 schools, 22 hospitals, 18 churches, 5 theatres, 50 banks and insurance companies, 31 department stores, 31 large hotels, 62 administration buildings, and factories. In total there were 222,000 apartments in the city... gone.. no military advantage was gained.

My mom, my grandmother, and my aunt ...walked out with the clothes on their backs. Literally..the clothes on their backs..nothing else came with them from their home. The had bags packed..went to visit a friend and never made it back to their home to get the bags they packed.. all was lost. but the most important thing.. their lives were spared.

So I can understand when she says.. "Hey.. they only blew up 2 buildings".. some 70 years later she still ducks at the sound of thunder. or even a firecracker.. ..the lingering after-affect of that week of bombing in the 1940's ... Mom is 86 now.

We have been at war for 10 years since and accomplished what??? What exactly have we accomplished?.. Sadaam is gone.. but it's no better than before. There is no peace in Iraq..no govenment stability.. They are perhaps worse than when Sadaam, was there. It's up for debate.. Afganistan.. we have accomplished nothing there.. there is no way to declare victory over terrorists..no country to capture..they have no country..they are everywhere..no way to declare a victory..Defend our homeland..that's it..these wars are a waste.. mostly of our young people and our tax dollars.

Wasted youth.. that's what I see .. wasted youth.. I served in the Marines..so I know what it's about.. and I feel sorry for the soldiers sent over to these wasted wars.. It's very sad..

Resources Sez it's resources,has zero to do with democracy thats a fancy slogan.
Investigate the financial aspects of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and you will see what I am talking about,who benefits is the real answer to your question.

Your right though in the end it is our troops that pay the ultimate sacrifice for what is going on and I can remember when I served there was no politics to it we were to young for politics,just tell us who the enemy is and when were supposed to be there.

[Sez.EJ]

So.. Dan.. I hear ya.. but I'm not seeing it..Gas prices are high as ever. The iraqi people resent us.. so when we leave.. how does it benefit us.. What financial benifit from Afganistan? They are not a big oil state that I know of.. Unless we are going into the opium business..then I understand..

So tell me.. In the the near 10 years since 911.. I only see billions being spent.. I see no return.. I only see dead bodies, crippled soldiers, orphans, widows, and ruined families on all sides.. Ours and theirs.. much more on theirs.. and no one talks about that.. first wars in our history we started without being attacked.. I don't like either one. The terroists are with Bin Laden.. they are not connected to Iraq in any way.. and the Afganistan connection is skethy at best.. I mean he's supposedly in Pakistan.. and he's not Pakistani, he's not an Afgaini and he's not Iraqi.. I believe he is Egyptian.. supposedly our ally.. So do we attack them too?

[Danamal]

First of all I never supported the decision to go to war in Iraq a few cruise missile up some terrorist asses in Afghanistan/Pakistan and a public bitch slapping of Pakistan would have worked for me but that's my opinion.
Who said we are leaving?
I remember being in Germany in 84 and 85 some forty years after WWII was over,guess what?,Iraq,Kuwait and Afghanistan are the new overseas destination for our troops to protect what? Resources!, certainly not "our freedoms".
Do some light reading it might broaden your horizons or make you ill...

[Sez.EJ]

I do not believe we will be in either of those countries another 30 years. The cold war is over.. the wwII generation tolerated us being in germany.. this country will not tolerate us in Iraq and afghanistan long term..For Afghanistan again i ask..what resources?????.. small amounts of natural gas and opium??? As for supporting the wars.. I am with you.. I never saw any reason to start either of these wars.. we have accomplished nothing. There can be no victory over terrorists.. how can you declare a victory over an enemy with no country and no roots???..they go where they want and set up shop.. I do not see these guys as a threat to our freedoms. They are but a nuisance at best.

The real threats to our freedoms are our own politicians. but they are not considered terrorists.. Then there is the guy who started these 2 wars.. some consider him the top terrorist of them all. I am not saying I agree..but it is just a matter of perspective I guess.