Is there a heaven? Hawking says "no"

[Crow]

I'm not trying to be a smartass. I know the typical theological answer.

It seemed to imply that you could get to Heaven without faith in Jesus Christ, so I asked.

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by Crow

I'm not trying to be a smartass. I know the typical theological answer.

It seemed to imply that you could get to Heaven without faith in Jesus Christ, so I asked.

I didn't think you were trying to be a smartass...

The "truth" lies in your beliefs.

Judaism isn't clear but has references to Olam Ha Ba and Gan Eden - both of which serve to represent the "world" after the Messiah comes and saves the righteous. Gan Eden is a form of heaven on earth.

Other religions believe in other versions of "heaven" and the afterlife. Reincarnation, Nirvana, etc - all of these beliefs represent different things and don't require a belief in Jesus to achieve.

The "popular" Christian belief and description of Heaven does include an assertion that the sole path to heaven is through Jesus Christ - but as hammer pointed out, there is an "exception" for those who have no knowledge i.e. your deserted island and babies and young children.

[Earth]

It's eternity in there!

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by Crow

Out of curiosity, would someone in a native tribe on an island middle of the sea somewhere - they die, go to Hell? Gospel hasn't been introduced to the area.

I guess you didn't read my post just prior to yours..

We judged based upon what you know..no what you don't know..So if you have never been introduced to Christ.. you are not judged that way..You are judged based upon the light you are given..

in other words... You could get to heaven if you have NEVER heard of Christ... But you won't get to heaven if you reject Christ..

[Jax Dawg]

I think Hawking still resents God for making him a cripple during his wild and crazy college years.

[Inspecta]

Originally Posted by Jax Dawg

I think Hawking still resents God for making him a cripple during his wild and crazy college years.

I actually mentioned that way way earlier in this thread.

Think about how frustrating it would be to have a mind as brilliant as Hawkings, yet confined to a body like that? I would probably have some questions for God about that one.

Or, this could be his honest to God (pun intended) opinion on the matter...

[Sez.EJ]

A lot of people end up rejecting God due to tragedies they have. God does not promise to protect us from problems.. He promises to protect us THROUGH problems.. look at Hawking..the guy is still very blessed... I mean he's famous, has money, a fine mind, a good career. even though he has rejected God at this point in his life..If he realized how blessed he still is, he may realize how amazing God truly is.

God did not even protect Christ from death.. Only ONE of the 12 apostles died of old age..EVERY SINGLE ONE..but John was put to death (11 of 12) and killed in most brutal of ways. They tried to kill John by boiling him in oil..but it didn't work..so they exiled him out on the island of Pathmos. ..but not ONE denied Christ when being killed. They thought it was an honor to die in the name of the Lord...Oh to be that brave..Not sure I could handle it as well as they did.

I don't know how people who say they read the Bible get upset and blame God when they experience problems. They think believing protects them from the world. It does not. It makes no sense that people believe this. I don't think a lot of supposed believers actually know what the Bible says. It basically says if you believe in Christ you will have trials in life.



From John (Christ tells his disciples) : 15 18“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.</SPAN> 19If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you

and from 1st Peter 4 12Beloved, do not be surprised at(AA) the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13But rejoice(AB) insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad(AC) when his glory is revealed. 1

[Inspecta]

Yeah Sez, I agree with you on that one. However I think for a lot of people, it isn't trials in and of themselves that get them discouraged. I think for most people they accept that shit is gonna happen to them, and they are willing to accept that. I think the problem comes in when said person is expecting the trials and tribulations to end, they think they've served enough bad time and now want things to turn around, but they don't. Things continue to go bad, and that's when they start to question God. The Bible says he'll never give you more than you can handle, and I think some people get to a point where they can't handle it anymore, therefore God must be lying. When in fact, they were trying to go through these trials alone, not leaning on God during this process. I know I'm VERY guilty of this, because my strong head tells me I can stand on my own two feet and deal with anything that comes down the pike. Usually when I get into this mindset is when God really turns up the heat. Then I finally come to my senses and get on my knees.

[Sez.EJ]

Inspector your right.. we want to be in controll..Giving controll to God and trusting Him is one of the most difficult things...even for the most mature Christian to do.. Our human nature is tough to overcome.. On our knees is always the best way.. Prayer is really critical to keeping that connection. When we stop praying..we lose that connection and we feel like God is far away....The thing is..God is still there, and it's us who have gone away..not Him.. ...