Is there a heaven? Hawking says "no"

[hiwaygal]

Heaven is a fairy tale, says physicist Hawking


Mon, May 16 2011

LONDON (Reuters Life!) - Heaven is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking said in an interview published on Monday.

Hawking, 69, was expected to die within a few years of being diagnosed with degenerative motor neurone disease at the age of 21, but became one of the world's most famous scientists with the publication of his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time."

"I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first," he told the Guardian newspaper.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

When asked how we should live he said: "We should seek the greatest value of our action."

Hawking gave the interview ahead of the Google Zeitgeist meeting in London where he will join speakers including British finance minister George Osborne and Nobel prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

Addressing the question "Why are we here?" he will argue tiny quantum fluctuations in the very early universe sowed the seeds of human life.

The former Cambridge University Lucasian Professor of Mathematics, a post once also held by Isaac Newton, has a history of drawing criticism for his comments on religion.
His 2010 book "The Grand Design" provoked a backlash among religious leaders, including chief rabbi Lord Sacks, for arguing there was no need for a divine force to explain the creation of the universe.

As a result of his incurable illness Hawking can only speak through a voice synthesizer and is almost completely paralyzed.

He sparked serious concerns in 2009 when he was hospitalized after falling seriously ill following a lecture tour in the United States but has since returned to Cambridge University as a director of research.

[hammertime]

and we should take him seriously because why??

we all have the option to beleive or not to beleive. Faith is not a science and science has yet to present us with the miracles we witness in our lifetime.

[Legacy Fan]

It stands to reason that if "tiny quantum fluctuations in the very early universe sowed the seeds of human life" those same tiny fluctuations should have sewn seeds for non-human (earth) life. If "fluctuations" are the pre-requisite, then there should be life on planets & systems that do not share our atmosphere. Fluctuations inherently require "adaptations" that are then able to be passed along via reproduction. Therefore, there is nothing stopping life from dwelling in a hydrogen rich (for example) atmosphere. Life that can exist in sub- or super-earth temperatures/light cycles. Areas that are seemingly in-hospitable. (Why? Because we have them on our own planet - gas vents at the bottom of the ocean, acid pools, etc.)

Yet that life has not manifested elsewhere. Dr Hawking is relying on the same numerical value of faith in his own assertion of "Absolutely not" regarding God/I.D./religion/heaven as I am in my own assertion of "why not?"

Because if you want to break it down, fluctuations are simply codon shifts. Amino Acid removal, addition or change in location. All of which happen to be methylated (methyl groups attached to the AA). Which serve as markers for the ribosome to come and fix the problem by stopping the protein formation, or "cleaning it up." Rarely, those methylated AA's make it through the cell's quite remarkable Quality Assurance system, and this results in a mutation. It then has to be passed along via reproduction if it is indeed fit for the organism. (Think TV's Survivor)

Also, "Fluctuations" still do not answer the "chicken or the egg"

Good luck with the book sales, Steve.

[hiwaygal]

I thought this might be an interesting discussion...but DAMN Leg, you lost me with all that codons and methylated shit! lol

Personally, I don't believe heaven is a physical place but a spiritual one. I guess I kinda agree with Hawking except that I wouldn't have put it quite so bluntly or so harshly.

I don't think people who believe heaven is a physical place are deluded or "scared of the dark" or believing in fairy tales (I believe in some of those too!), but for me, it just doesn't make sense.

Ultimately, I think Hawking, while a brilliant scientist, is missing the point. I've come to start thinking more and more along the lines that science will prove there is a God...if we give it the right parameters.

Science and religion don't have to be mutually exclusive and Hawking is only serving to widen the gap and stir the pot.

[Vegasdogg]

I don't know about all that, but I do know Peyton Hillis is on the cover of Madden, the Tribe is in 1st place, and the Cavs got the 1st and 4th picks in the draft. For Cleveland fans that's knocking on heaven's door right now.

[hiwaygal]

Veg!!!

[Sez.EJ]

I'm not sure how anyone can look at the world, nature, see the orderliness of the universe and not see God behind it all. Look at all the brilliant people in the world.. just a shadow of the brilliant mind behind it all.
Job 11: 7-9
“Can you fathom the mysteries of God?
Can you probe the limits of the Almighty?
They are higher than the heavens—what can you do?
They are deeper than the depths of the grave—what can you know?
Their measure is longer than the earth
and wider than the sea.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by hiwaygal

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

This is something I really didn't get. A computer never really dies unless it is incinerated in a fire. Most of the time you can replace a part in the computer that went bad and it works again. Also computers don't have souls, that is why there would or could be no afterlife for them. Maybe Hawking is just going crazy

[Sez.EJ]

Computers were built "by someone". They did not just suddenly appear out of thin air; anymore than the universe came out of thin air. A computer is a reflection of the great minds that created them, just like the universe and the human mind,... is a reflection of God who's brilliant mind created all things... People talk about the big bang.. If I had a bag of computer parts.. I could shake that bag for all eternity.. all those parts are not going to suddenly come together and form a computer..Someone has to design it and put it together..Just like the universe.. It's too mathmatically accurate..It was designed.

[Legacy Fan]

Originally Posted by hiwaygal

I thought this might be an interesting discussion...but DAMN Leg, you lost me with all that codons and methylated shit! lol

Ha! Thanks, I think.

Scientists are so sure of themselves. It's amusing.

[PlaygroundLegend]

I am a firm believer in both science and god. Looking at the most basic of scientific principles, you can derrive that science proves the existence of God (that is if you are open enough to accept the definition of God being ∞ (infinity) or the current unknown or unexplained).

Break it down this way... Matter cannot be created nor destroyed...

When looking at the Big Bang Theory.... we must then ask... well...where did it come from? How did the matter/explosion originate?

Then we look at this... an object in motion, stays in motion, and an object at rest stays at rest unless another force is acted upon it. Then we must ask... who/what was the original catalyst? The original mover so to speak.

I believe in evolution, the big bang theory and string theory... and Im also catholic... and I think it all runs together....

The only thing I have a hard time believing however... is free will... I cannot wrap my head around it. I disagree with my religion in that sense, I don't think there is any such thing as free will. That is based upon the principles of physics (mostly) and biology.. as well as going back to the big bang.

I would love to talk about why, but I would hate to bore you all... if you want me to elaborate let me know

[Sez.EJ]

PGL: I believe in free will. You can choose to believe and follow God or not. He does not force you. I believe in a God of love. God is certainly powerful enough to force us to follow him. But then if you are forced it's not love, it's not a choice. People have to choose to open their hearts to God.. then God does the rest. But unless we invite him in. He cannot force his way in on us. He does things in our life to show us he is there.. Sometimes it is with various trials and problems, Sometimes it's with people he places in our life. But ultimately.. we get to choose. There is much more to it than this simplistic answer, but that's the basics of my understanding.. as for evolution.. I only believe in evolution WITHIN a species.. A dog can turn into anothe kind of dog (thus all the breeds).. But a dog, no matter how often you breed it.. will ever be an elphant, or a shark, or a human. Just another version of a dog.. That fits in with the Biblical version of creation and I accept that. The bible was never meant to be a history book, but does contain history. It's design is to show the nature of God and lead people to Christ..People try to make it things it was never intended to be.

LUKE 11: 9-12
9“So I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
11“Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead 12Or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!”

I am glad we have an opportunity to discuss this again. It has been a while. My favorite topic, not to mention the most important thing we could ever discuss.. Our eternal destination. There are but 2 choices. Heaven or hell. Just because some people choose not to believe it..does not make them any less real. The devil's greatest lie; is that he is not real. Anything he can do to distract you from the truth, is what he will do.