Quarterbacks Drafted by Holmgren

[Inspecta]

Grey and Wombat, great examples guys. It's hard to slam a guy cause he's not finding pro bowlers in the 6th round every year.

If there were say a list of all these 1st and 2nd round busts he had drafted then I might be more worried. But here, not so much.

[Greythan]

No response from Shep? I'm sorta surprised since he was begging for someone to engage on the topic and now he has a few responses.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by samoth

Ok Shep, by your own admission Holmgren picked McCoy and Heckert dictated the rest of the draft. So shouldn't you be more upset with Heckert for not picking Clausen? Heckert only has a decade of solid drafting experience for a consistent playoff team to fall back on, so surely he knows not what he does.

I don't really get mad at someone like Heckert or the organization in general. It's just my opinion that they missed on Clausen. They should've taken him at 38 when he fell into their lap.

I'm clear that they disagree. Michael David Smith said that the Browns were not at all committed to taking a QB anywhere in the draft, but that if they'd taken Corey Peters at 85, some consensus was building to take a QB at 92.

That tells me they didn't see Clausen or McCoy as the long term guy or they wouldn't have risked losing either. They took McCoy at 85 because Holmgren liked the value. I'm fine with that.

I just think they got the wrong faller. But no... I'm not mad. I just disagree.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by Greythan

No response from Shep? I'm sorta surprised since he was begging for someone to engage on the topic and now he has a few responses.

I was at passing league. Sorry.

First, Jerry Jones isn't a GM, right? He's an owner.

Second... I'm not "attacking" Holmgren. Nowhere have I attacked Holmgren. Hell, I LIKE Holmgren.

But there was some lionizing going on here that had him taking wings, guys. He has an iffy track record as a talent evaluator.

It also seemed to me that some people here thought he'd turned every quarterback he touched into gold. That just isn't true. He did great work with Steve Young, Brett Favre, and Matt Hasselbeck. He didn't get to coach Brunell very much (he didn't play much for GB and did all his damage in Jacksonville)... and none of the others really did anything, nor were they expected to.

And that's the story. He does not have some long, rich history of coaching up lower draft picks... because he's only had two starters in his head coaching career for any length of time.

I think he's really good with quarterbacks. I do. And I think he was a great coach. I like the way he thinks. We agree on most things, including the passing game's prominence.

The notion that I'm "attacking" Holmgren is knitted from nothing. Nowhere here did I say he's an idiot or a false god or anything like that. If you choose to be angry about a factual list... have at it.

It isn't meant to prove that Holmgren's bad. It's mean to prove that many notions slung around here about him just aren't true. That's all.

Clear?

[Greythan]

You missed my post then Shep.

His record seems to speak for itself. He HAS a strong record with QB's. Nothing more, nothing less. Your thread here seems to put forth the notion that his track record is somehow questionable. I think you may be the only person to think this way. His reputation and the supporting body of work would refute your assertion.

I haven't seen the lionizing you reference in my read of this community. Excitement? Sure. Irrational exhuburance about our current QB situation? Not by a long shot.

[mz.]

I like Holmgren.

I dislike McCoy.

Something's gotta give.

[Greythan]

I don't get that MZ. McCoy is third round pick. A calculated risk for a team without a solution at QB. We didn't go "all in" (i.e., first round), so if he doesn't pan out.... no big deal.

So, you can like Holmgren, dislike McCoy, and NOTHING has to give.

[samoth]

The truth of the matter is that there are less than 32 starting calibre NFL quarterbacks in the entire world. If finding one was so easy, every team would have an all-star at QB. Holmgren has had an incredible history with developing this position, including 2 hall of famers (I don't include Young since he spent negligible if any time with him) and several other Pro-Bowlers.

We've had it bad here in Cleveland since Kosar, other than a year here and there with Vinny or DA. Whether McCoy becomes the next starter or not, you can't blame that on the people in charge. The ability to do this job is so rare that you are just as likely to find an all-pro in the 1st round as you are with an undrafted free agent. If McCoy sucks, we'll draft someone else next year or the year after.

[hammertime]

Kyle Wachholtz
Height: 6-4 Weight: 248 Age: 38
Born: 5/17/1972 Norco , CA
College: USC
Experience: 2 Seasons


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point being is you've got to keep on trying whether its the 3rd round, 7th round or quite possibly the 1st.

you don't stop swinging for the fence until you hit a home run.

hell i hope we draft nothing but qb's in 2011.(not really but...)

[mz.]

A third round pick isn't a throwaway pick, a nothing pick, a 'nothing but upside' pick. It has value. You should be able to get a decent starter there (except at QB, of course).

A majority of MH's 'fliers' were chosen later than the third round.

[Greythan]

MZ, in the majority of his seasons he already had a quality (Farve = HOF'er and Hasselbeck = 3 time PB'er) starter in the #1 slot. What do we have here? Our situation is very different.

Yes, it is somewhat of a flyer even though it was a third round pick. No way he takes McCoy there if we have an established QB of the future on the roster. We don't, so he did.

[Vegasdogg]

Mike Holmgren took two going nowhere teams and took them to the SB, all while developing talent at QB. Sea and GB were shitty teams before Mike hot there. I'm pretty sure any critique of Mike and his QB developing/drafting skills should be done by someone who knows WTF he/she is talking about. That is obviously not the case here. This is getting ridiculous. Mike has one pick in a weakass QB class and all of a sudden McCoy shouldn't have been chosen? Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit.