Thoughts after the most important game of pre-season.

[Dan in Florida]

Originally Posted by Shep

McCoy is accurate from about 0 to 2 yards. Shit. He can't even throw an 8-yard slant right now.

If Holmgren turns this kid into something, he truly will be in Bill Walsh territory. I feel like I did the first couple times I watched Charlie Frye: Yikes.

I have to agree with you Shep.

I think we have ANOTHER dud...another BQ!

I hope I'm wrong, I hope everybody says I rushed to judgement and he turns out great...I just don't think so.

I haven't seen 1 (one) decent pass from him...well, over 10 yards.

Note - I'm usually wrong. Feel free to rub it in if I am again!

[Neo]

The expectations some of you guys (Not naming names) have for our rookie quarterbacks is just down right ridiculous. It is the equivalent of getting your first REAL job coming out of highschool and your foreman comes up to you and tells you that if you don't pick up in two days your fired. You would be hoping for them to give you a chance to learn everything and not give up on you after just a couple of days or a week. McCoy hasn't even got his feet wet and some of you are ready to call him a bust. CHILL OUT and let him learn!

[Dan in Florida]

Just like people give opinions before the draft...I am stating my opinion now (right or wrong) about McCoy.

Yes it's WAY early, but it's MY opinion. He can prove me wrong and be great & I would be thrilled.

[damajuki]

Only watched snatches today, mostly of the 2nd half, but here's what I saw:

Jake is the leader we needed and hoped he was. After Wallace's nice scramble for a first down, I noticed Jake and Hillis being the first coming off the sideline to him, all fired up. I LOVE that kind of thing out of guys; shows they are into the game but more importantly they are supporting their teammates.

Wallace is a fantastic change-of-pace who is showing me a lot of zip and accuracy, not to mention making plays with his legs. I'm with shep in hoping Wallace gets a series or two a game to help keep D's off-balance. A creative package with him and Cribbs -- not necessarily even a gadget package, just a run/pass option-heavy package for Wallace with Cribbs out there -- should net yards and points simply because it will be SO FAR OUTSIDE what a D has to prep for in Jake and the running attack.

Man, Hillis is quickly becoming a fan favorite, isn't he? Holy hell, this guy might be just the ideal back for Mangini's run-first, short-pass offense. If Hardesty shows us ANYTHING like this, we are going to be REALLY tough to defend, especially late in games.

Harrison is disappointing but it really doesn't matter right now, given how good Hillis looks and Hardesty's rise. Back to 3rd down for the Ghost is fine by me. He could still have a nice role in that niche for us.

Our TEs are going to be a handful for most D's. If we get ANYTHING out of our WRs, we might actually compete in every game this year, simply because the TEs are going to dominate the middle of the field.

Finally, we all need to pause and recognize the Mangini plan coming together here. We have 3 really solid, complimentary TEs, a nice mix of speed/strength backs, young WRs, veteran QBs...

Anyone still feeling the hate for Mangini right now? Seriously?

I'm way pumped. I'm even considering keeping Sunday Ticket, despite the INSANE $400 price tag.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by Joker

The expectations some of you guys (Not naming names) have for our rookie quarterbacks is just down right ridiculous. It is the equivalent of getting your first REAL job coming out of highschool and your foreman comes up to you and tells you that if you don't pick up in two days your fired. You would be hoping for them to give you a chance to learn everything and not give up on you after just a couple of days or a week. McCoy hasn't even got his feet wet and some of you are ready to call him a bust. CHILL OUT and let him learn!

That doesn't make any sense. Rookies quarterbacks have good showings in preseason all the time. Bradford and Kafka both did yesterday.

Watch highlights of Kafka's game winning drive last night... and tell me McCoy is as good as him right now. If he is, then I'm truly crazy.

Kafka is a rookie fourth round pick, Joker.

[Shep]

Great stuff, Dama. You got me psyched!

Things is... Hillis is the better third down back. He's a terrific receiver. I really think if Hardesty is as good as the brass think he is (and I think he is)... Harrison is gonna fade.

Watching Davis on screens, he's clearly our fastest back. I could live with Harrison being phased out.

Originally Posted by damajuki

Only watched snatches today, mostly of the 2nd half, but here's what I saw:

Jake is the leader we needed and hoped he was. After Wallace's nice scramble for a first down, I noticed Jake and Hillis being the first coming off the sideline to him, all fired up. I LOVE that kind of thing out of guys; shows they are into the game but more importantly they are supporting their teammates.

Wallace is a fantastic change-of-pace who is showing me a lot of zip and accuracy, not to mention making plays with his legs. I'm with shep in hoping Wallace gets a series or two a game to help keep D's off-balance. A creative package with him and Cribbs -- not necessarily even a gadget package, just a run/pass option-heavy package for Wallace with Cribbs out there -- should net yards and points simply because it will be SO FAR OUTSIDE what a D has to prep for in Jake and the running attack.

Man, Hillis is quickly becoming a fan favorite, isn't he? Holy hell, this guy might be just the ideal back for Mangini's run-first, short-pass offense. If Hardesty shows us ANYTHING like this, we are going to be REALLY tough to defend, especially late in games.

Harrison is disappointing but it really doesn't matter right now, given how good Hillis looks and Hardesty's rise. Back to 3rd down for the Ghost is fine by me. He could still have a nice role in that niche for us.

Our TEs are going to be a handful for most D's. If we get ANYTHING out of our WRs, we might actually compete in every game this year, simply because the TEs are going to dominate the middle of the field.

Finally, we all need to pause and recognize the Mangini plan coming together here. We have 3 really solid, complimentary TEs, a nice mix of speed/strength backs, young WRs, veteran QBs...

Anyone still feeling the hate for Mangini right now? Seriously?

I'm way pumped. I'm even considering keeping Sunday Ticket, despite the INSANE $400 price tag.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by Dan in Florida

Just like people give opinions before the draft...I am stating my opinion now (right or wrong) about McCoy.

Yes it's WAY early, but it's MY opinion. He can prove me wrong and be great & I would be thrilled.

Bam. Exactly.

I said the same thing about Frye: I would seriously love to be wrong. Hell, he had a couple DECENT games near the end of his rookie year and I started drinking Kool-Aid by the gallons.

Lasted until the next time I saw him, I think.

If McCoy ever looks good, I'll start getting hopeful. But so far, he is what I thought he was. Thank God both Delhomme and Wallace have looked so good.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Shep

That doesn't make any sense. Rookies quarterbacks have good showings in preseason all the time. Bradford and Kafka both did yesterday.

Watch highlights of Kafka's game winning drive last night... and tell me McCoy is as good as him right now. If he is, then I'm truly crazy.

Kafka is a rookie fourth round pick, Joker.

I just don't see the need for McCoy to come in and light it up the first time he touches the ball. We don't need McCoy right now so what's the big deal? Look how long Rodgers sat behind Brett Favre and look how he turned out. I think we can get at least two good years out of Delhomme maybe three. If McCoy doesn't look good when we DO need him, then I will say he is a bust.

[Shep]

But we can't wait two years to get our SERIOUS long-term QB, our version of Rodgers, Manning, Rivers, Brady, etc. Because then it's another year to get him ready.

I want the future superstar QB of the Browns learning behind Delhomme and/or Wallace next season, when Delhomme is 36. And I really don't think McCoy is that guy.

[Alo]

McCoy still isn't seeing the field well or showing much patience in the pocket. Hopefully, he'll be better on Thursday.

In more immediately important news, Pashos was very effective in the run game. Despite not having much practice time together, he & Lauvao formed a very nice right side duo.

Unfortunately, Pashos did struggle in pass pro: I counted three pressures and one obvious hold. But it was his first game back, so we can hope he improves and becomes the Ryan Tucker of our right side. And if he doesn't, we should be able to give him some RB/TE help.

On the DL: Schaefering had a very good game. I thought he played better than Robaire Smith, who was put on the ground a couple times. With Rogers out, Derreck Robinson appears to be our backup NT, so he'll likely make the 53 man roster. Kenyon Coleman is as strong as ever, which is encouraging.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by Shep

But we can't wait two years to get our SERIOUS long-term QB, our version of Rodgers, Manning, Rivers, Brady, etc. Because then it's another year to get him ready.

I want the future superstar QB of the Browns learning behind Delhomme and/or Wallace next season, when Delhomme is 36. And I really don't think McCoy is that guy.

I am not gonna get caught up in this quarterback debating that goes on here so I will just say this, I don't give up on players after their first pre-season in the NFL. Delhomme is THIS years quarterback guaranteed barring injury. If they give McCoy more time with the one's and two's next pre-season and he still looks this bad, then I say move on to the next guy.

[damajuki]

Originally Posted by Shep

But we can't wait two years to get our SERIOUS long-term QB, our version of Rodgers, Manning, Rivers, Brady, etc. Because then it's another year to get him ready.

I want the future superstar QB of the Browns learning behind Delhomme and/or Wallace next season, when Delhomme is 36. And I really don't think McCoy is that guy.

And here it is. The perfect summation of the importance of McCoy looking AT MINIMUM like he belongs on an NFL roster RIGHT FREAKING NOW.

This isn't Rodgers learning behind media whore Brett Favre (what? he used to be a good QB? I thought he was always just a sports reality TV star) for 3 years, where there was no reason to worry given his skills.

This is McCoy -- an already marginal physical specimen -- looking like he can't even compete on the most basic level for a team that is ACTIVELY SEARCHING for its future QB.

So if McCoy can't get it together, we have a real issue on our hands. Can we hold onto a marginal talent simply because he was a good college QB?

I don't think we're good or deep enough to be able to do that. Not to mention the fact that we just did that very thing with another good college QB who never looked like an NFL QB for any sustained stretch. (I'm talking about BQ but it applies to DA too, actually.)