Thoughts after the most important game of pre-season.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Masters

I have to disagree with you on it being a great ploy. If I was now game planning againt the Browns, I'd be happy to allow them to got to that Wallace/pistol formation after driving into the redzone. All it did was mess up the offensive rythem and waste a redzone TD opportunity. If CLE wants to settle for 3 instead of 7, the only wondering from the other side would be why would you waste a redzone opportunity.

My point was that other teams are going to have to think when he comes in it means there's a set of plays where it is not just Wallace but Cribbs with him.

Wallace can run and pass and Cribbs can do it all. Sorry, but I think other teams are going to have to work on that as much as keeping tract of where Hillis and the TEs are when Delhimme is in there. Then pay too much attention to Hillis and the TEs and get burned by Vickers. Cribbs can also run a wildcat formation even when Delhomme is in there. Using Mitchell on the reverse was sort of telling them be careful because we can do that with Cribbs if you want to bring corner or safety blitzes.

[BernietheKid]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

-Delhomme is what we thought he is (at least a few of us)...a damned good QB who had 1 god awful year. Clearly the best QB in a Browns Uni since Kosar. A lot of you seem to be pulling for Wallace to start and/or get a ton of action, I'm hoping the opposite. The less we see of Wallace the better, he's a good back-up but he's no Jake Delhomme. Prediction : Barring major injuries, Delhomme makes a push for the pro-bowl this season.

-Even in the very first training camp session, I commented how much better Cribbs was looking at WR. People kept claiming the opposite as TC and pre-season games played out ...but I am hoping he's changing your minds.

-Harrison has done little to nothing to impress me. He's not good enough as a feature back to be putting the ball on the ground as much as he has been. Prediction: When all is said and done, Harrison will be our 3rd down back ...if that. He's not, or at least shouldn't be a feature back.

-Hillis is a beast. He's the guy I'd like to see in combination with Hardesty this season. (if Hardesty is as good as advertised)

-Ben Watson is better than I hoped.

-Daboll is who we thought he is. (a couple of us) A smart, young O-coordinator who was growing leaps and bound towards the end of last season, and is continuing to grow into what looks to be a creative, intelligent coach.

-I hope Haden takes the starting CB spot so that Brown takes Elams spot.

-Elam sucks.

-Sheldon Brown is not as good as advertised.

-Not too worried about our D ...they look disciplined for the most part, and we are currently missing key components. Pre-season D is usually more vanilla than even the O, we're not showing much.


I'll stick with my pre pre-season prediction of 7-9. That being said, I am even more positive about our team. I could easily see a few breaks going our way, and us getting 10 wins and a play-off berth. (again, barring injuries ..we aren't deep enough yet) Yes, I said it.


(I know the game is not over yet, so I may have more to add)

I wish we had someone to replace Elam with. He might be the worst safety in the league. How do you commit a stupid penatly that allows Detroit to move inside the one, than in the very next play have blown coverage? That is just some of the worst football I have ever seen.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

My point was that other teams are going to have to think when he comes in it means there's a set of plays where it is not just Wallace but Cribbs with him.

Wallace can run and pass and Cribbs can do it all. Sorry, but I think other teams are going to have to work on that as much as keeping tract of where Hillis and the TEs are when Delhimme is in there. Then pay too much attention to Hillis and the TEs and get burned by Vickers. Cribbs can also run a wildcat formation even when Delhomme is in there. Using Mitchell on the reverse was sort of telling them be careful because we can do that with Cribbs if you want to bring corner or safety blitzes.

I'd agree if they had lined Cribbs up in the backfield with Wallace in some flavor of wildcat. But they didn't. They basically just changed the QB for two plays in the redzone and wasted a redzone opportunity (it was a hand off and a pass play). It didn't give anything for other teams to think about, other than why would you waste two downs in the redzone and kill the steam your O had on that drive. I don't believe another team is going to watch film of that and think "uh oh, we got to watch out for that". I am sure most teams would love to see the opposing team change the QB out in the middle of a drive, let alone one that marched right down the field. I don't see other teams worrying that CLE might check Wallace in and use him as the QB.

[Dan in Florida]

Originally Posted by Dan in Florida

I just finished watching/replaying (much in slo-mo) the OFFENSE in the 1st half & I rewatched Colt at the end of the game.

I was REALLY impressed with Jake. I thought the game plan to neutralize the Lions D-Line was great.

Well, we have a young "starting" Right Guard now...I paid extra attention to OG Lauvau with his matchup with SUH. I thought he did a great job, he seemed to be in sync with Mack (helping each other). The one play where SUH came through and face masked (and tried to rip Jake's head off), Lauvau was blocking SUH, one on one, when a Lion came flying in the hole to the right of Lauvau (and to the left of Pashos (who was blocking wide), and Lauvau switched to the man who would have gotten to Jake alot sooner... unfortunately that freed up SUH who DOUBLE cheap-shotted Jake. BTW - I think SUH should be SUSPENDED & FINED! Jake "CLEARLY" had gotten rid of the ball, and he could have broken Jake's neck there...a message needs to be sent on that from the Commish!

Pachos didn't look that bad to me either after watching in slo-mo.

Hillis is amazing and becoming my favorite guy to watch. Gotta credit Vickers blocking too!

After re-watching Colt, he was efficient in his ultra short passing game with his scrubs. I'm still not sold on him but he has plenty of time to be groomed I guess.

BTW, I will give my opinion of the 2nd half after further review

[Solon16]

To start with..... a Veteran presence at the Qb position is a HUGE difference, and obviously makes average wr's like Momass and Robiskie much better. The O-line looked awesome to me, really impressed with O-line against their first team D. Dissapointed the didnt line up and shove it down their throats with Vickers and Hillis, when they got down to the six...instead three straight throws. grrrr

Love Hillis and boy does he remind me of Alstott. Love Cribbs...been on the don't believe the hype fence forever...but in the face of BIG hype he starts game by returning KO to the 40....just HUGE part of football.

Lastly....When are you guys going to realize that our defeense has sucked ass since we salary capped Earl Holmes...Middle linebacker play in a 3-4 or 4-3 is crucial to good defense. I've been screaming for a MLB since Mike Johnson left! DUDES....Veikune is a disaster at ILB, Barton looks WAY slow, DQ (fking sucks imo), Maiva just OK...Gocong looked just a bit better than average but gets the best rush...We need a stud inside and we have weaklings! just my thoughts on game...O-line is f-ing good!

[samoth]

Veikune did look pretty bad. He might not make the cut. Still, better a 2nd rounder than a #6 overall mistake like Vernon Gholston.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Masters

I'd agree if they had lined Cribbs up in the backfield with Wallace in some flavor of wildcat. But they didn't. They basically just changed the QB for two plays in the redzone and wasted a redzone opportunity (it was a hand off and a pass play). It didn't give anything for other teams to think about, other than why would you waste two downs in the redzone and kill the steam your O had on that drive. I don't believe another team is going to watch film of that and think "uh oh, we got to watch out for that". I am sure most teams would love to see the opposing team change the QB out in the middle of a drive, let alone one that marched right down the field. I don't see other teams worrying that CLE might check Wallace in and use him as the QB.

Not to beat a dead horse, but my point was not that Wallace came in as a QB it was that teams may recognize the fact that that was preseason and during the season they may bring in Wallace and pair him with Cribbs. That's the part I think that may make them want to spend some time defending what could happen if Wallace is brought in in the red zone.

Personally, I don't like it as much in the red zne as I would if it was out at the 40. Notice how little they were bringing Cribbs in motion. I believe that will change to keep teams from bringing a safety into the box.

[Alo]

Originally Posted by Flugel

The ugly - it's being mentioned by others that we aren't contesting the pass at all. Our LBers have also been terrible in their zones for the most part while we're not getting consistent pressure on the QB. The saddest part of my ugly here is that David Bowens looks like he lost about 3-4 steps from late last season. Not that he's ever been a speedster per say; but he's not even CLOSE to the guy I saw late last year. Reality is this will be his 11th season so father time might have snuk up on him or I'm jumping the gun off of tonight.

The issue you've pointed out about the LBs not getting depth definitely showed up. I noticed it most with Gocong, who didn't have a very good game (on Jahvid Best's long run, he went into the block with his inside shoulder, which led to him being unable to get back inside for the tackle).

As others mentioned, Eric Barton isn't very good at this point of his career. Late in the '08 season, Barton showed signs of waning playing strength: he got mauled by blockers, got carried 3-4 yards before bringing the ballcarrier down. My theory is that his neck already was affecting his game. And though he's had the disk surgically repaired, he's having even more tackling troubles.

I wouldn't worry about Bowens just yet. He's always been pretty awful in coverage, which we may have forgotten about because he made such a big impact last year playing downhill. Early last season, everyone was complaining about how slow Bowens was -- some even suggested that he played with a piss poor motor -- yet he had a massive impact late in the year.

With the new additions at LB, Bowens should be allowed to focus on his situational pass rush work: blitzing from the ILB spot, standing up over a guard and blitzing the A/B gap, or lining up at 5 tech on passing downs.

And we need help from Bowens there: Shaun Rogers is going to be out for an unknown length of time, and Matt Roth -- who was our top pass rusher last season -- hasn't notched a sack this pre-season. Hopefully, that stat doesn't mean anything, but you have to be slightly concerned about a guy losing some explosiveness when he adds a lot of bulk.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Not to beat a dead horse, but my point was not that Wallace came in as a QB it was that teams may recognize the fact that that was preseason and during the season they may bring in Wallace and pair him with Cribbs. That's the part I think that may make them want to spend some time defending what could happen if Wallace is brought in in the red zone.

Personally, I don't like it as much in the red zne as I would if it was out at the 40. Notice how little they were bringing Cribbs in motion. I believe that will change to keep teams from bringing a safety into the box.

It's always fun to beat a dead horse

I just don't believe what they did last night will make teams realize the Browns will pair him with Cribbs in the backfield at some point. Teams should already know this, as all they'd have to do is read any published news report about the Browns camp. That formation has been on display. I'd sooner believe it would have given teams something to think about if CLE had lined both guys up back there, but still did a traditional run and pass (maybe motion Cribbs out of the back field to the tradional X/Y receive spot. That would give the through to me of "uh oh, we are going to have to plan for a wild cat type play, but also a tradional play out of the personal package". To me that formation last night gave nothing to worry about. It's not like Wallace is Mike Vick.

I agree once the real games come, Cribbs will be put in motion and they will run reverse and some gadget plays with him. Though CLE not showing it in pre-season doesn't disguise the idea that much. CLE did some of those plays last season. So unless a team doesn't bother looking at last seasons tape, it's already something they have to think about.

[Shep]

Great stuff from both of you guys... and I was actually watching the ILBs more for some reason. I thought Bowens was HORRIBLE and looked like a cut, but it probably won't happen. I know what A's talking about with Gocong -- he was out of position playing forward on at least a few big runs.

It's his strength -- explosion and power -- but he has to learn the position. Totally agree.

I noticed that Benard almost immediately got a hit on the QB when he went in, but also got suckered on a run, playing like he was blitzing the passer with no regard for the edge.

My other concern: Fujita was always outside, right? I though he was moving inside. He is so NOT a pass rusher, although I know he can cover.

Originally Posted by Alo

The issue you've pointed out about the LBs not getting depth definitely showed up. I noticed it most with Gocong, who didn't have a very good game (on Jahvid Best's long run, he went into the block with his inside shoulder, which led to him being unable to get back inside for the tackle).

As others mentioned, Eric Barton isn't very good at this point of his career. Late in the '08 season, Barton showed signs of waning playing strength: he got mauled by blockers, got carried 3-4 yards before bringing the ballcarrier down. My theory is that his neck already was affecting his game. And though he's had the disk surgically repaired, he's having even more tackling troubles.

I wouldn't worry about Bowens just yet. He's always been pretty awful in coverage, which we may have forgotten about because he made such a big impact last year playing downhill. Early last season, everyone was complaining about how slow Bowens was -- some even suggested that he played with a piss poor motor -- yet he had a massive impact late in the year.

With the new additions at LB, Bowens should be allowed to focus on his situational pass rush work: blitzing from the ILB spot, standing up over a guard and blitzing the A/B gap, or lining up at 5 tech on passing downs.

And we need help from Bowens there: Shaun Rogers is going to be out for an unknown length of time, and Matt Roth -- who was our top pass rusher last season -- hasn't notched a sack this pre-season. Hopefully, that stat doesn't mean anything, but you have to be slightly concerned about a guy losing some explosiveness when he adds a lot of bulk.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Flugel

The bad - Sheldon Brown keeps getting burnt everygame (moreso than the younger guys like Haden and Wright IMO). I'd try to get him into Elam's spot as soon as possible; because he would probably be much better in space. Elam hasn't impressed anyone so we could conceivably upgrade 2 different positions in teh secondary with this move.

The ugly - it's being mentioned by others that we aren't contesting the pass at all. Our LBers have also been terrible in their zones for the most part while we're not getting consistent pressure on the QB. The saddest part of my ugly here is that David Bowens looks like he lost about 3-4 steps from late last season. Not that he's ever been a speedster per say; but he's not even CLOSE to the guy I saw late last year. Reality is this will be his 11th season so father time might have snuk up on him or I'm jumping the gun off of tonight.
- Tom F.

On the bad, if I recall correctly, someone pointed out when we first got S. Brown that he had a rep for getting beat, and Philly fans were down on him (of course Philly fans are usually down on all of their players at some point or another). I do recall that Philly went and drafted corners a few years ago because Brown's coverage could be sketchy at times. Now I can't fault Brown too much on that first TD pass. That was a perfect fade where only the taller WR was going to get it. I still believe what I said when Brown got picked up, he will be the 3rd DB when it is all said in done. From what I have seen of Haden each week, I say line him up opposite Wright and let those guys go at it.

As for the ugly, I think it just punctuates my discussion with you earlier this week about the Browns pass rush and D. The secondary is improved, from last season for sure. But last seasons sack total had some smoke and mirrors with it. CLE's D wasn't at the bottom against the rush and the pass by accident. There are still major holes at the LB spot, specifically ILB, and true pass rush LB.

Let's hope the above average looking offense carries over to the regular season and can mask some of the D's struggles.

[NW Ohio Brownie]

Our LBs are junk in pass coverage. Underneath stuff to the tight ends is killing us. It's allowing too many third-down conversions.

I thought our corners did a pretty good job all day. The 3rd and 16 conversion was a busted coverage, not the corners' fault in zone coverage.

Also, these PI calls in the preseason have been downright brutal. And yesterday's call against Wright took the cake. He's looking back at the ball after a jam at the line of scrimmage, maybe arm-barring the guy and the ball sails seven yards out of bounds. And that draws a flag?

Offensively, what's not to like outside of the fumble-itis of Harrison?

Jake is making plays through the air. 80% completion? Are you kidding me?

Hillis is an f'ing nightmare. Did you see #43 Phillips on the touchdown run yesterday? Wanted no part of him on the goal line. Just kind of escorted him in.

Robo had a nice game, too, and how about that grab by Cribbs?

I'm not going to pile on Elam because it's not like he was any good last year, either.

And Shep, we did spend a lot of money on the secondary, but the guys stinkin' up the joint yesterday weren't named Brown, Ward, and Haden. It was Elam and our slow-ass linebackers who couldn't make a play against the pass.