Cleveland Browns waived 2009 second-round pick David Veikune

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Originally Posted by Shep

My issue of the past two drafts is that we're a team that lacks star power, impact players making big plays, etc., and we've come away with a center, a nickel corner, a couple of possession receivers, a safety, and a right guard. They're all perfectly good players, but I would have liked to have seen a QB, a gamechanging #1 WR, a franchise back, or a scary-ass pass rusher in there somewhere.

Difference of opinion maybe, but you don't draft "star power" before you have laid a foundation. Draft as many "star power" players as you want, if your foundation is built on sand, he will sink. We did btw draft our franchise back. As far as impact players, we've come away with a top 3 center, 2 starting WRs, a potential all-pro safety, a shut-down #1 corner, and a starting RG. Not to mention the gems we've uncovered who weren't even drafted. I just don't get the dislike, especially after the putrid drafts of years past. To each his own.

We can't fix everything in 2 drafts, but we are well on our way.

[Vegasdogg]

Shep in two years Sanchez for Mack will be a steal for the Browns. I'm predicting Sanchez to have an awful 2010 and lose his starting job after 2011. Well I've been saying that for awhile now. Mack was a great pick. 2009 was not a bad draft.

As for Veikune, I thought making a project out of a 2nd round pick on a team as void of talent as us was a bad move. Arrogance in the fact that Mangini/Ryan thought he'd "coach him up."

Not a gamble you take on a team with low amounts of talent. Loadholt was there. So were a couple RB's. Veikune is better off on the PS - if that - and it's best we cut him now.

Really pumped about the other 2nd rounders in Robo and Momass. These guys are going to get after it and really contribute.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Shep

My issue of the past two drafts is that we're a team that lacks star power, impact players making big plays, etc., and we've come away with a center, a nickel corner, a couple of possession receivers, a safety, and a right guard. They're all perfectly good players, but I would have liked to have seen a QB, a gamechanging #1 WR, a franchise back, or a scary-ass pass rusher in there somewhere.

You meant a Pro-Bowl C, a starting #1 CB, an absolute stud RG, gamechanging S, two very good WR's.

Don't downplay the picks because they weren't Hollywood QB's or D Ware's man. Thats boring hyperbole This team needed help. Everywhere.

Holmgren said let's build like the Jets and Ravens. They added these same pieces BEFORE the Hollywood picks.

Cart before the horse. It doesn't jive with Holmgren's philosophy one bit.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Shep in two years Sanchez for Mack will be a steal for the Browns. I'm predicting Sanchez to have an awful 2010 and lose his starting job after 2011. Well I've been saying that for awhile now. Mack was a great pick. 2009 was not a bad draft.

I have been predicting Sanchez gets benched at some point this season. His pre-season showing did nothing to make me change that feeling.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

I am out of the loop... What did BMac say? (I didn't know he was cut...)

This though, is no surprise to me. We reached on Veikune, and we never gave him a spot to be comfortable. We kept trying new things and hoping that he would just 'get it'. That was not the case. Moving him to ILB and hoping for the best was a doomed move and really, a terrible decision. Mangini's supposed to be a defensive minded guy, he should have known better than this but oh well. The people who have been dogging Veikune since the start (which is a considerable amount of us) are right...

I'm labeling Veikune an official bust.

Several weeks ago he tweeted "TO to da Bengals huh???? Yessss, another piece of p@#&y fa da Browns secondary to run a train on...

I never liked the handling of Veikune and questioned trying to move him to ILB several times last year. It was like htey were trying to teach him to play ever LB position at one time. Made no sense. Let him learn OLB first, and go from there.

[lemosley01]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Difference of opinion maybe, but you don't draft "star power" before you have laid a foundation. Draft as many "star power" players as you want, if your foundation is built on sand, he will sink. We did btw draft our franchise back. As far as impact players, we've come away with a top 3 center, 2 starting WRs, a potential all-pro safety, a shut-down #1 corner, and a starting RG. Not to mention the gems we've uncovered who weren't even drafted. I just don't get the dislike, especially after the putrid drafts of years past. To each his own.

We can't fix everything in 2 drafts, but we are well on our way.

Who is our franchise back?

RE: Impact players - I think you mean 'potential'. We don't CURRENTLY have a top 3 center, OR a shut-down #1 corner. We have two guys that might become those players.

We have 2 starting WRs - for the Browns, which isn't saying much when you look at our recent history. My question is would either of our starting receivers be #1 and #2 receivers on top teams in the league? Right now, I would say no, but they've only had one season, and I'm not expecting them to perform at that level yet.

TJ Ward has yet to play the first regular-season snap, as do any of the guys we just drafted.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

[Shep]

Exactly, Lem. If Mack had been top three, he'd be a Pro Bowler. Haden isn't starting, let alone flashing as a #1 shutdown corner. Neither Robiskie nor Massoquoi have done anything to suggest that they're starting because they awesome... they're starting because we're hanging with them and didn't bring anybody else in.

Hey, I like most of these guys. I'm not convinced we couldn't have found a really good center in round 2 and I'm not convinced either of the WRs will be a scary #1 guy. It's a fact that for now Haden is a nickel corner.

Ward? I dug him at Oregon. I have a feeling he could be the best of the lot.

I'm not suggesting that we replace EVERY pick with a franchise quarterback, Dez Bryant, or a big-time pass rusher. I'm saying we didn't get any of those three things in the last two drafts. I don't think it's as simple as saying one is flash and the other is foundation.

Playmakers make plays that win games. Great teams have great playmakers. The Browns lack that on both sides of the ball... and I feel like we could have added ONE guy on offense and ONE guy on defense who makes big plays. Some speed, some explosion, some highlight material.

[samoth]

Originally Posted by Shep

Exactly, Lem. If Mack had been top three, he'd be a Pro Bowler. Haden isn't starting, let alone flashing as a #1 shutdown corner. Neither Robiskie nor Massoquoi have done anything to suggest that they're starting because they awesome... they're starting because we're hanging with them and didn't bring anybody else in.

Hey, I like most of these guys. I'm not convinced we couldn't have found a really good center in round 2 and I'm not convinced either of the WRs will be a scary #1 guy. It's a fact that for now Haden is a nickel corner.

Ward? I dug him at Oregon. I have a feeling he could be the best of the lot.

I'm not suggesting that we replace EVERY pick with a franchise quarterback, Dez Bryant, or a big-time pass rusher. I'm saying we didn't get any of those three things in the last two drafts. I don't think it's as simple as saying one is flash and the other is foundation.

Playmakers make plays that win games. Great teams have great playmakers. The Browns lack that on both sides of the ball... and I feel like we could have added ONE guy on offense and ONE guy on defense who makes big plays. Some speed, some explosion, some highlight material.

Ward has earned his starting role. Haden will be the starter at some point this year. Mack could be a pro bowler if we get national attention (remember, Olinemen are generally picked by name recognition and Mangold is a pretty big name to beat).

Mark Sanchez has shown nothing so far in the NFL. Maybe he becomes an all pro, maybe he busts out. We got a solid starter at an incredibly important position by trading out of #5 and paying one man 70 million dollars. Ask yourself, who would be the Browns starting center this year if we didn't pick Mack? Billy Yates? An old Hank Fraley?

IMO this draft alone we added two guys on defense who can make plays and one on offense, who unfortunately met season-ending IR before he could contribute. You're still just mad because we didn't draft another diva WR after years of success with Andre Rison and Braylon Edwards to warrant such a pick.

[Shep]

If we hadn't drafted Mack in round one we would have picked or signed a center elsewhere.

I should qualify: I like Mack. I think center has really risen as a first round position in recent years. It's nice to have one area where we're drafting well (Thomas, Mack, Lauvao).

My question is whether a team with no playmakers should be avoiding them like herpes in the draft. I was stunned we didn't pick a speed receiver earlier, like Taylor Price, Emmanuel Sanders, or even Jordan Shipley. The latter two went to rivals and are playing their asses off.

[Crow]

Well it's good we did this sooner than later.

Nothing is worse than keeping a crap guy just because he's your guy.

Well.

Other than going 5-11 and missing the playoffs 9 out of 10 years.

[Vegasdogg]

Jordan Shipley < Chansi Stuckey. Our guys are playing their asses off as well.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Jordan Shipley < Chansi Stuckey. Our guys are playing their asses off as well.

The WRs? Really?

I hope Stuckey is better than Shipley, because the latter is making one hell of an impression. So is Sanders... and to a quieter degree, Price, who has more guys in front of him.

The painful thing is that all three of those team went into the draft with better WR situations than us... and then did more. They put even more space between their passing games and ours, and it's the most important part of today's NFL.