One of the Best Articles on Football You'll Ever Read (INCLUDES BROWNS)

[Shep]

No. Not saying that at all. Just saying when Manning got there, they'd just been 3-13 and did the same the next year. They were not a good team.

The Packers play in Lambeau... and THAT'S an offense. Pats play in Foxboro... best offense ever. Both are pass-first offenses, too.

To win our division, or to consistently contend, we'll have to have a Top 10 quarterback who stays in Cleveland for a decade or more. It's just the league we play in.

[King of Kings]

Great, another thread about drafting a 1st round QB. Can NEVER have enough of these.

[Tobalaz]

It's a fact than anyone who thinks that a top 10 qb isn't the single most important thing to guarantee long term success is f#cked in the head.
I'm going to repeat the same qb mantra every time I get a chance even though everyone already knows it's what I stand for.
I don't understand why everyone picks on me when I make these threads.
Maybe....
Maybe I should read what I'm posting over and over and knock out the "thinks I'm slick" comments to other posters who disagree with me if I don't want to feel persecuted.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by Tobalaz

It's a fact than anyone who thinks that a top 10 qb isn't the single most important thing to guarantee long term success is f#cked in the head.
I'm going to repeat the same qb mantra every time I get a chance even though everyone already knows it's what I stand for.
I don't understand why everyone picks on me when I make these threads.
Maybe....
Maybe I should read what I'm posting over and over and knock out the "thinks I'm slick" comments to other posters who disagree with me if I don't want to feel persecuted.

Or I could avoid wasted time and tell you to blow me?

Bam. Done.

(Dude, it's a board and we're debating off a really excellent article. What the fuck do you think we're doing here if not this?????)

That said, your first line is one of the wisest, most direct things ever written on this board. Kudos.

[grimmreaper3]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Great, another thread about drafting a 1st round QB. Can NEVER have enough of these.

Sarcastic comments in a thread about QBs that could have been avoided but instead figured it would be a better use of time to pop in for a boring quip.

Can never have enough of thoOHMYGODAMETEOR

[Tobalaz]

You could have brought Tom Brady, Peyton Manning or Drew Brees into this organization when we had a mess at the top level and without anything else there they would NOT be top 10 qbs.
My point is..
It starts at the top.
QB may be the most important position on the field, but without a structure above it no matter who you bring in it doesn't make a difference.
Joe Montana to KC, that was a top 10 qb on a bottom 10 team and what good did it do? No rings in KC.

Look at long-term Have Nots and you'll find the polar opposite. Love how Gruden says you MUST find your quarterback... and if you're wrong, you MUST try again. Everything else is way easier to find.

Packers - Favre and Rodgers
Eagles - McNabb
Colts - Manning
Patriots - Brady
Steelers - Roethlisberger
Saints - Brees
Chargers - Rivers
Cowboys - Romo

First you started on about how winning teams had to have a top 10 qb but as soon as the Ravens were used as an example of consistantly winning without a qb....

Here's where I disagree on the ever-popular Ravens example, Thaak: Prior to Flacco (and we don't have a big enough sample on him), they were NOT consistent winners like the Eagles, Pats, Colts, and so on. They would be a playoff team one year, out the next.

Then the standard changed from winning records to playoff contention.

And if the Colts were so horrid before Manning, what about 95 and 96?
Bad teams don't win their conferences or make AFC championship games 2 straight seasons.

[samoth]

The argument as i see it is this" ""good teams have good QBs".

Well, DUH. No shit. The problem is there are 32 teams in the NFL and there are not 32 NFL calibre QBs between them. We've tried twice in the first round in 11 years and haven't hit on one there. We aren't the only ones, either. Ask Joey Harrington, Alex Smith, David Carr, Akili Smith, and Matt Leinart. It's not as easy as you always make it out to be Shep.

The Ravens had a historic defense, excellent running game, and an all-pro offensive line to protect Trent Doofus when they won the Superbowl. Same with the Bucs with Brad Johnson. Every other team to win the SB this decade have had an elite QB. However, that is not all they had. The Saints don't even make the Superbowl without their pass rush, as Favre was prepared to rip them apart. Pissburgh doesn't steal two titles without great defensive players and young receivers stepping up when they needed it.

Hopefully this is the end of your pointless QB threads for the season, but I doubt it. How are Mike Kafka and Jimmy Clausen doing anyway?

[Enigmatic Evil]

I think the overall point of the article is that QB creates stability for the coach, which then creates stability for the entire organization. To try and use that article to say that the main reason for our woes have been our merry-go-round at QB is a bit ridiculous. QB woe is only PART of the problem. We've had a revolving door in the front office, head coach, etc, etc. The ONLY area of the ENTIRE franchise that has been stable has been the KICKER. We've had Phil Dawson forever to the point that I am starting to wonder if he's immortal or not.

With Holmgren, and Heckert and Mangini, hopefully we can keep a stable front for this team to build upon properly. QB isn't our only area of need. If we're going to turn around, it's going to take more than just a stalwart option at QB to get our team to the playoffs.

[Greythan]

I read the article before Shep linked it.

I didn't learn anything from it nor would any half-informed NFL fan. This isn't ground breaking. We've known for YEARS that a marquee QB is the single most important element. (Notice, not the "only" element)

We've drafted 2 QB's in the first round.

We've drafted QB's in later rounds.

We've gone the UNFA route. We've brought in other FA's.

We'll continue to search for our long-term solution at QB.

Nothing new here to me.

[Shep]

I think it IS groundbreaking. You could say quarterback has always been the most important position and you'd be right. But the prominence of the passing game, the correlation between QBR and winning, and the rise of teams that are not "complete" but pass well... it's amazing how much things have changed.

Evil, that's a great point: Stability at QB allows for stability in the coaching staff which creates continuity throughout the program. It allows an administration time to get the right players for the right schemes. It's the opposite of a Coach Killer... it's a Coach Saver.

If you're in a rebuilding mode, draft a QB just as high as you can, assuming you like one. Why? Because fan's understand the maturation process of a young quarterback and envision future glory. It buys a new head coach a few years to build a roster that works for his system.

I love "Big Picture" articles like this that step back and look at what winning teams do.

And I stand by my feelings about the Ravens: Between the Super Bowl and Flacco, they missed the playoffs more than they made them and had 5 and 6 win seasons. That excludes the last two Flacco years, BTW, which is where we're looking at things differently (Samoth). They did this with an amazing running game and an amazing defense.

Meanwhile, Manning just put up 7 straight years of at least 11 wins... with neither of those things. The Patriots had great defenses but a revolving door at WR and no-name RBs. The Packers have had one constant: great quarterback play. The Chargers have been closer to a Super Bowl since they stopped being LT's team and started being Rivers' team. The Texans had their first winning season when Schaub started 16 games. The Saints became relevant when they got Brees and Payton. And on and on.

(Yes, I teed that up for the hatahs, yo! Like, "On and on, like you blather about the quarterback position?")

[samoth]

Originally Posted by Shep

I think it IS groundbreaking. You could say quarterback has always been the most important position and you'd be right. But the prominence of the passing game, the correlation between QBR and winning, and the rise of teams that are not "complete" but pass well... it's amazing how much things have changed.

Evil, that's a great point: Stability at QB allows for stability in the coaching staff which creates continuity throughout the program. It allows an administration time to get the right players for the right schemes. It's the opposite of a Coach Killer... it's a Coach Saver.

If you're in a rebuilding mode, draft a QB just as high as you can, assuming you like one. Why? Because fan's understand the maturation process of a young quarterback and envision future glory. It buys a new head coach a few years to build a roster that works for his system.

I love "Big Picture" articles like this that step back and look at what winning teams do.

And I stand by my feelings about the Ravens: Between the Super Bowl and Flacco, they missed the playoffs more than they made them and had 5 and 6 win seasons. That excludes the last two Flacco years, BTW, which is where we're looking at things differently (Samoth). They did this with an amazing running game and an amazing defense.

Meanwhile, Manning just put up 7 straight years of at least 11 wins... with neither of those things. The Patriots had great defenses but a revolving door at WR and no-name RBs. The Packers have had one constant: great quarterback play. The Chargers have been closer to a Super Bowl since they stopped being LT's team and started being Rivers' team. The Texans had their first winning season when Schaub started 16 games. The Saints became relevant when they got Brees and Payton. And on and on.

(Yes, I teed that up for the hatahs, yo! Like, "On and on, like you blather about the quarterback position?")

To say the Colts haven't had a great defense is misleading. They have never been top of the league, but certainly better than average with some superstar players (Freeney, Sanders) thrown into the mix.

BTW, if drafting a 1st round QB was all it took to secure a coach's job for a few years, why did Chris Palmer and Romeo Crennel both exit stage left so quickly after doing this? How did the Matt Leinart pick work out for Denny Green? I bet Dick LeBeau didn't last too long after picking Akili Smith. It means nothing and is just another weak stat you want to make seem more important.

[Shep]

There are exceptions, Sam... but the problems arise when the QB plays right away and isn't good. I think Green's firing was a bit of a surprise. A lot of people thought Leinart's strong showing late in the year would save him.

Palmer fits your description but Crennel doesn't. He was overseeing a QB carousel and seemed out of control.

If I'm rebuilding, I want part of that to be the development of the young guy who's gonna quarterback my team for the next decade, because I know without that... I'm not really in the game yet. I'm in limbo... and most fans (and owners) understand that. Certainly Gruden, Jaws, and those GMs do.

The bottom line is that however you do it, you simply have to do it. And if you fail, you have to try again right away, because every year you don't have your guy is another year lost, like Gruden indicated. You have to be willing to cut your losses... which Mangini seemed ready to do last year by trading Quinn AND Anderson and drafting Sanchez. It seemed radical and he didn't have the support of the owner. Or me.

But he may have been right.