One of the Best Articles on Football You'll Ever Read (INCLUDES BROWNS)

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Shep

If I'm rebuilding, I want part of that to be the development of the young guy who's gonna quarterback my team for the next decade, because I know without that... I'm not really in the game yet. I'm in limbo... and most fans (and owners) understand that. Certainly Gruden, Jaws, and those GMs do

Yes but there are a couple of different ways to bring along a QB. Certainly you must agree that the Rams and Lions chose their guy at much different developmental stages than the Jets and Ravens.

Seems to me the QB's growth is stunted and somewhat permanently damaged (maybe) if you play him on a poor team over a 3-4 year period, hoping the other pieces fall into place.

Take a couple of cases: David Carr and Alex Smith. Neither got off the ground correctly, IMO, and that sort of left them never hitting on all cylinders. With Carr I thought he took an absolute beating, but with Alex Smith there is still time. But look what Singletary did - he raised that defense into a top 10, is back to concentrating on running the ball well, and surrounded Smith with a young OL that has promise.

Meanwhile the Stafford's and Bradford's and Trent Edwards of the world are going to struggle until the rest of the team catches up with them, and by that time you MAY lose a great investment because you put the cart before the horse.

Who has a better chance to have a longer career? A guy going to a team that runs well and plays great defense? Or a player going to just the opposite?

I am with Holmgren - you need your own Bradford. But the Jets and Ravens are the right model, Shep. You can't deny that Holmgren has this correct.

Specifically speaking about the Browns, who really DO NOT know how to win consistently over 16 games, you truly have to establish a consistency, a couple of comebacks to develop an identity and a belief you can win, before you slide into a QB debate because you just picked your Stafford and people want to see him play.

Lets win some games first, get another season under us, and then in the draft or by trade, bring in the #1 and go from there.

We know how important the QB is, dude.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Shep

And if you fail, you have to try again right away,

But specifically speaking about Cleveland, who has not had a QB in over 17 years, this is a VERY tough place to try that "right away." We need consistency and leadership right now. It's like cutting some really high grass. If you cut it all at once it will look like shit, but if you take some time and cut it 2-3 times, it will come out better. Same with the Browns. We need leadership and consistency, and while we also need a long term QB, we have other lesson to learn as well. As a team. As young guys become veterans. There needs to be a culture of winning and right now there isnt.

So when you don't have that culture of winning, than you wisely bring on a Vet QB, address some other issues, get the team all moving forward towards one goal, cut some fat, develop other pisitions, and start upping the competetion anty.

That doesn't or shouldn't take that long. Could be we take our QB next draft.

In the meantime maybe you could enjoy the ride and watch the team develop. Because what I just described is what Holmgren talked about in March, and what I bought into then, and what you are NOW seeing today.

It's called a P L A N.

[Shep]

Good stuff, Veg (needling aside). It seems like there are many roads to Mecca with young QBs. Manning was a #1 overall (so the team wasn't very good), but he survived and ultimately thrived. Brady was Brady, one of the greatest draft finds in the history of the league. Rodgers and Rivers got a few years to watch and learn. Flacco, Ryan, Sanchez, and Stafford all seem to have survived starting right off the bat, in different ways and to varying degrees.

But your point about Couch and Smith is great because they're so much alike, both coming from quirky shotgun offenses but still forced into the lineup far too soon. In truth, Bradford is doing the same thing but times have changed. These kids are going to elite QB camps from 8 on and playing in sophisticated high school offenses like never before.

Maybe they played in a spread in college... but maybe they played a pro style in high school or certainly in camps. They're way more versed and sophisticated now.

I think the bottom line point is that however you find him... you gotta find him. The Joe Kapp or Trent Dilfer days are long gone. If you can't field a Top 10-12 passing game in this league, year after year after year, you aren't gonna win very much for very long.

No matter what the weather.

But good stuff.

[samoth]

Why woudl you ever quote Jon Gruden about drafting QBs? He only ever won with aging vets (Gannon, Johnson).

[Boltblogger]

We're going to see a lot of things change with this still relatively new front office. Holmgren and Company haven't even been here a year yet. As mentioned, the revolving door in the administrative side of things has slowed down the Browns' progress more than anything else.

This kid from Delaware could be another Flacco. Didn't he play at Delaware too? I'm not sold on McCoy at all, and I was luke warm, at best, when we drafted him. Still, I'll wait and see on that. If he proves me wrong, that would be great.

Sept. 12...just a few more days!!!!!!

[Thaak]

Originally Posted by Shep

If you're in a rebuilding mode,

The key in this quote is "rebuilding". Not "new building" as the new franchises have had to do for as long as I can remember.

Since 1970, "new building" has resulted in crap teams, no matter who they drafted.

The Browns went with the tried and true formula of drafting a QB first overall. But Couch didn't fail because he was piss poor (some might argue against that statement, but I think he was a decent QB, possibly franchise worthy, if he was drafted by an established team).

Couch failed because they tried to start him right away on a crap team full of crap veterans cast off by other crap teams. If they'd gotten a veteran and started him for a year or two so Couch could learn (and the veteran could have been clobbered instead of Couch) then it is likely by 2002, Couch is starting and beating the Steelers in that wildcard game. And we'd have Butch Davis as our coach still with Couch as our starter.

The problem Shep, is that you have yet to acknowledge that a 3-13 two years running Indianapolis team coming off two playoff years and moving into a decade of dominance is still better than a newly formed team with crap.

I'm tired of this crap!

[Masters]

This article is certainly not ground breaking. I have read this same basic story at least 4 times in the lat 13 month (half of which I think Shep posted).

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Masters

This article is certainly not ground breaking. I have read this same basic story at least 4 times in the lat 13 month (half of which I think Shep posted).

Ok now come on Shep, the above is funny. You got to laugh at some of this stuff. LOL. You post a lot, post a lot about QB's, and you seriously need to laugh at some of the shit you take.

[Shep]

It's a really well done "big picture" article that I appreciate. We rarely see that kind of depth and homework in a sports environment that's about yelling and hyperbole. It's a smart piece.

I see what you're saying, M... but you'd be amazed how many "knowledgable" fans still say winning in the NFL is about running and stopping the run. It's simply not the case anymore. It's a revolution that people aren't caught up with.

[Shep]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Ok now come on Shep, the above is funny. You got to laugh at some of this stuff. LOL. You post a lot, post a lot about QB's, and you seriously need to laugh at some of the shit you take.

I'm getting a better sense of humor about it (!).

[Alo]

Anyone gonna watch the FSU/Oklahoma game on Saturday? Instead of having a theoretical discussion about QBs, we probably should be watching more of these guys so that we don't end up pimping the next Brady Quinn.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Alo

Anyone gonna watch the FSU/Oklahoma game on Saturday? Instead of having a theoretical discussion about QBs, we probably should be watching more of these guys so that we don't end up pimping the next Brady Quinn.

We're just prepping for next years draft, just a little stretching, trying to stay warm coach. :-)