One of the Best Articles on Football You'll Ever Read (INCLUDES BROWNS)

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

We know how important the QB is, dude.

Yet not as important as they're propped up to be around here.

Originally Posted by Masters

This article is certainly not ground breaking. I have read this same basic story at least 4 times in the lat 13 month (half of which I think Shep posted).

Pretty much.

Originally Posted by Shep

but you'd be amazed how many "knowledgable" fans still say winning in the NFL is about running and stopping the run. It's simply not the case anymore.

It always has been and always will be the case in the AFCN, unless of course all four teams decide to build domes.

That said, QB fetishes/QB's throwing the ball porn aside it CAN be argued that IF everyone jumps on this trend of 200 passes per game secondaries and the passrush take a premium on the Defense as stopping the run/drafting elite run stoppers takes a back seat. The end result is pretty obvious, half the NFL or more unable to stop the run. Sure, sure they'll be able to stuff it some of the time and early on. They WON'T however have the depth to stop it the ENTIRE game, or to stop it ALL of the time anymore.

The smart move is to build that strong run game, ESPECIALLY in Cleveland where we play in snow storms later in the season. Oh I know, it isn't fun, it's not sexy and how do we see the QB's arm glistening in sweat after throwing 200 passes? We don't. So be it. It's boring, yet effective. So be it.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Alo

Anyone gonna watch the FSU/Oklahoma game on Saturday? Instead of having a theoretical discussion about QBs, we probably should be watching more of these guys so that we don't end up pimping the next Brady Quinn.

I plan to try and catch that game. I am curious to see how Ponder does when not facing Samford. Especially since OKL's secondary got torched pretty good by Utah St.

[Shep]

I'm with Veg... we're stretching, damnit! PRACTICE? PRACTICE????

I think Ponder might be the anti-Quinn, although he, too, lacks the big arm. He's very accurate... and also crazy smart (36 on preseason Wonderlic). He seems like a much better Drew Brees connection than most I've heard.

It'll be fun to see how he does. I remember another QB I liked (Stanton) setting up for his big coming out... and he belly flopped.

[Shep]

KoK, teams that can't run the ball but pass it really well are doing just fine... making the playoffs, getting byes, going to the Super Bowl, etc. Same for teams with so-so defenses.

I agree on the defenses. They'll have to do SOMETHING. It's their job. But I think it's gonna be more pass rush than "shutdown corners." Rules make that tough and rare.

[Masters]

Winning in the NFL is abotu a lot of things, including running the ball and stopping the run (because that typically controls the clock, which limits the number of possessions you allow your opponent, or allows you to close out games).

We have been down this path. I know people like to say there is a "trend" of it being a passing first league. I personally think those people should learn the definition of the word trend before they start throwing it around. One or two years doesn't equal a trend. Let's see what happens this year and the next couple of years.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Shep

KoK, teams that can't run the ball but pass it really well are doing just fine... making the playoffs, getting byes, going to the Super Bowl, etc. Same for teams with so-so defenses.

And yet in the last three years....

NY Giants win the Superbowl by.... Their defense shutting down New Englands passing game enough to keep it a close game...

Pittsburgh Steelers with the 32nd ranked Offense(And #1 ranked Defense) get to the Superbowl and win it through....? Defense.

Then we have the Saints last year, whose Defense scored more points then most offenses in the NFL creating a passrush and more importantly turnovers resulting in... Going to the Superbowl thanks to an interception at the right time.

Funny thing about that, that was the same way Peyton the superboy finally made it to his first SB, through the defense stepping up and making a play. We all know how that worked out and know the Bears sure as shit weren't there facing Manning because Grossman had sexy biceps and was an elite passer...

I'm just saying. As the other saying goes: "It is what it is." Defense wins championships. Always has been true, always will be true. We can keep chickenshitting and make believing that all you need is a sexy QB and a couple high priced WR's to win championships but, well, that's not the case no matter how much the mantra is chanted. Those aren't the only examples. 2000 Ravens, 2002 Patriots, 2003 Patriots, 1970's Steelers, 1970's/1980's Cowboys, Early 90's Cowboys(Funny how once the Defense went by the wayside the combo of Aikman/Irvin/Harper/E. Smith couldn't get that elusive 4th superbowl) and so on.

The bottomline: With a top Defense you can win championships. With a good offense and good defense you can win championships. With a good offense and barely any defense you can't. You're the shitass Chargers, a team who can if their division is weak enough make the playoffs every year before getting your ass handed to you. No thanks. I want championships. As to this fantasy that "all you really need is to draft a hyped up QB in the first round then some first round WR's" 1: This isn't Madden, and 2: It doesn't work and won't work. Sorry but that's the reality.

[Alo]

Originally Posted by Masters

I plan to try and catch that game. I am curious to see how Ponder does when not facing Samford. Especially since OKL's secondary got torched pretty good by Utah St.

If you miss the game, you can watch it later at ESPN3.com

[Alo]

Originally Posted by Rob Rang

Interesting notes released by NFL re: QBs. There are more QBs starting this week drafted 6th rd or later (7) than former No.1 overall (6).

QBs 6th rd or later include: Anderson, Arz; Moore, Car; Delhomme, Cle; Romo, Dal; Cassel, KC; Brady, NE; Hasselbeck, Sea

via here.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Alo

via here.

(!!!)

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Alo

If you miss the game, you can watch it later at ESPN3.com

Thanks. I might be on a plane during part of the game, so good to know I can catch it on ESPN3

[Masters]

*sigh* old statements that have been shown to have serious fault. .. "teams that can't run the ball but pass it really well are doing just fine... making the playoffs, getting byes, going to the Super Bowl, etc"

Last year:
HOU #1 passing offense / 30th ranked rushing offense - no playoffs
PIT #5 passing offense / 19th ranked rushing offense - no playoffs

I have broken this all down before, and the numbers showed a slight increase of top passing offense teams with lower ranked Ds or run games making the playoffs, or going far.

And by the by, NO last year had the 6th ranks rush offense in the NFL. 3 playoff teams last year had top 10 rushing O's and passing O's outside top 15 (Cincy, Balt, and Jets)

[Greythan]

Super Bowl Winners (Grey's take on their QB at that time)

2001: Ravens (Dilfer - NOT ELITE)
2002: Patriots (Brady - NOT ELITE at that time; Rams outgained Pats 427 - 267 for the game)
2003: Bucs (Brad Johnson - NOT ELITE)
2004: Pats (Brady - ELITE)
2005: Pats (Brady - ELITE)
2006: Steelers (Roethlesberger - NOT ELITE at that time; set NFL record for lowest QB rating in a Super Bowl with a 22.6)
2007: Colts (Manning - ELITE)
2008: Giants (Manning - NOT ELITE)
2009: Steelers (Roethlesberger - ELITE)
2010: Saints (Brees - ELITE)

Just trying to point out that the ultimate goal of winning the Super Bowl is NOT tied to having a consistent, top 5 ELITE QB. It simply isn't.

You can have a non-ELITE guy catch lightning in a bottle for a playoff run (E. Manning), or a journeyman put together a solid year (B. Johnson), or a defense carry a crappy QB (T. Dilfer), or a defense carry a young QB (Roethlessberger's first win and arguably Brady's).

Sure, all things equal and what ISN'T news, is that you are better off with an ELITE QB as you are more likely to (Tiger's favorite golf quote) "give yourself a chance". However, its not a perfect recipe.

Point is I don't see this article as ground breaking (had to say it again as Shep's insisting it is). This is old news, but let's not pretend that the last 10 Super Bowls have all been won by established, ELITE QB's. That simply isn't true.