Holmgren/Heckert/Haskell: What's the Plan?

[Tobalaz]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

This appears to be a good draft class for QB's depending upon who declares... 100x better than last year... no I'm not saying I want a QB with our #1 pick next year.. but it might be the year to go for it.

It does seem to be a good year to draft a qb, I'll agree there.
We'll have to see how things pan out first, how the kids play and if McCoy shows any progress or not.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

And I already said if we have a running game ranked 10-12, and a defense ranked 12-20, we're on our way, go get the guy, let him sit, improve the D to 10-12, and lets start the guy year two. WTF are you arguing about?

WTF are YOU on about? You asked me a question, I answered.

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Pinning their hopes on RT? Steinbach? WTF are you talking about now? We can't get a RT and LG in the draft after rounds 1 and 2?

Who exactly said anything about drafting a RT and LG with the first two picks? Really, who said that? Nobody that i'm aware of.

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

"If you're not with me you're against me."

I said that? Where? I don't give a fuck who you're with dude. You wanna parrot your former arch nemesis and jump in as his new MZ be my guest.

[ProphetKing]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

I said that? Where? I don't give a fuck who you're with dude. You wanna parrot your former arch nemesis and jump in as his new MZ be my guest.

Vegas, I can't quit you.



I wouldn't want you to, Shep.

[Shep]

Wow. Shit. Veg and I can't agree on something without it driving people crazy?

Why get after Veg when most people here (and on Earth) assume the Browns will draft for the passing game next year? It's cool that you're going against the grain, but not to get all pissy when you get some reactions like, "HUH??"

We're literally ranked 31st or 32nd by just about everybody at WR and QB. If we don't need serious talent at those positions... who does?

[ProphetKing]

The temptation for casual fans/Matt Millen is to draft a WR or a QB in the first every year, because those are the flashy positions who score all the points and shit. Smart people know a WR and a QB isn't a team, and after seeing this franchise massively fuck up every QB in the new generation, it's easy to see why someone would think "it's just not time yet." You can take that position too far too.

I'm basically of the opinion you need a quarterback or you will struggle to amount to anything, just like you will likely struggle if you have a shit defense. I'm also of the opinion that great quarterbacks don't grow on trees - if you can get "the guy" at a price you can accept, take him. You don't want to take a Quinn because you need a Warner, yet it seems for every 1 Warner there's 10 paper tiger Quinns just waiting to ground your franchise into the dust. I'd rather pay more for the real deal than be cheap and try to scrounge some guy up out of the bargain bin (Frye). With this administration I actually trust them to make good decisions so if they go after a guy, I will be happy.

[Shep]

I think it's the opposite for most Browns fans. There's a starphobic syndrome... like the nice, safe thing to do is draft another lineman or safety. We don't need no sassy passers or catchers 'round here!

Unfortunately, the only teams that win year after year have the very best of those.

However... you caution is noted and appreciated. Quinn was a bit of a wake-up call for me. On the other hand... did ANYBODY ever rate Quinn lower than Henne, on whatever scale they use?

And Henne looks like a pretty fucking serious QB to me. It ain't easy. I look at Ponder and see a real NFL starter, a very smart guy with a quick release, accuracy, and mobility. Right size. Plenty of experience after this year.

But you could say almost the exact same thing about Joey Harrington.

It's spooky... but you really have no choice. You're not going to the Super Bowl with Delhomme or whoever Buffalo's playing at QB this week. It'll be Manning or Brees or Roethlisberger or Rodgers or someone like that. Again.

Originally Posted by ProphetKing

The temptation for casual fans/Matt Millen is to draft a WR or a QB in the first every year, because those are the flashy positions who score all the points and shit. Smart people know a WR and a QB isn't a team, and after seeing this franchise massively fuck up every QB in the new generation, it's easy to see why someone would think "it's just not time yet." You can take that position too far too.

I'm basically of the opinion you need a quarterback or you will struggle to amount to anything, just like you will likely struggle if you have a shit defense. I'm also of the opinion that great quarterbacks don't grow on trees - if you can get "the guy" at a price you can accept, take him. You don't want to take a Quinn because you need a Warner, yet it seems for every 1 Warner there's 10 paper tiger Quinns just waiting to ground your franchise into the dust. I'd rather pay more for the real deal than be cheap and try to scrounge some guy up out of the bargain bin (Frye). With this administration I actually trust them to make good decisions so if they go after a guy, I will be happy.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by ProphetKing

The temptation for casual fans/Matt Millen is to draft a WR or a QB in the first every year, because those are the flashy positions who score all the points and shit. Smart people know a WR and a QB isn't a team, and after seeing this franchise massively fuck up every QB in the new generation, it's easy to see why someone would think "it's just not time yet." You can take that position too far too.

The question PK is what is "too far"? Apparently to some it's wanting a top 10 defense and top 10 run game to throw a QB into is going way over the line. As is pointing out that defense wins championships which is what a few of us would like for the Browns(championships and by default... Defense) once again. It is what it is though. I guess we could follow the Chargers mold and enjoy 8-8 to 11-5 every year while other teams continue to win Lombardi's.

[ProphetKing]

The cool and most overlooked aspect of football is that it's a team sport. You take the Vikings and you put Jimmy Johnson in his prime back there, that team would be much better and a playoff contender. But you put Jimmy on the Lions, they still wouldn't make it to the playoffs. I think the Chargers suffer from shit coaching in terms of Norv Turner and "I can't ever win a playoff game unless it results in ultimate embarassment down the road" Marty. But maybe that's not it.

It's really hard to reduce it down to one factor as football is just so goddamn complex. I would be lying if I said I understood football well enough to get a single draft pick right, let alone the direction of our franchise as a whole.

I'm not smart enough to know when we should take what guy or when. I only think if you get a chance to get someone you trust, you'd better take it, because pretenders are everywhere.

[Sez.EJ]

Look every team wants a Manning or a Breese type guy.. the problem is ... when you draft you don't know if your getting Manning or Ryan Leaf.. Leaf was ranked higher nearly across the board in that draft.. it's a crapshoot.. but like the lottery... if you don't play...you cannot win. Nearly EVERY year in the past 5 years or so I have said NO NO NO do not draft a QB in the first round.. This coming year is the FIRST year in a long long time.. I am saying.. OK.. maybe this year we take a long look in round one.. (I like a few). We ENOUGH pieces in place.. Yes..we still have holes..but a QB would have some semblance of a team to come into next year. Mainly a run game to offer some protection.. and with a DE (or two) a good enough defense that's young.

[Shep]

Maybe it's just me.... but there have been a ton of really smart posts in this thread. And in general lately. What the fuck? I'm reading Sez and thinking, "Shit. That was a great post."

Something's in the air. Vegas wrote some stuff that made me feel smarter from reading it. I'm happy.