Holmgren/Heckert/Haskell: What's the Plan?

[Shep]

With the Kolb trade either real or total fairy dust, it's time to poke the "Holmgren Bubble" and wonder why a WCO guru did nothing to give us a passing offense this year.

Sure, say there were no quarterbacks worth getting other than Bradford or Kolb. Say that Clausen will never start in this league until September 26th. Say Colt McCoy will somehow wake up able to throw a 25-yard out in Lake Erie wind.

But weren't there OTHER things that could be done in anticipation of drafting Luck or Ponder or Locker next April? Couldn't we have found at least a fast WR in round 3, if not a franchise WR in round 1? Shipley had a great first day and the Steelers and Pats love Sanders and Price. A lot of scouts said Taylor Price looked like a kid who could be a big-time starting WR in a year or two, maybe even a #1.

How could a trio of WCO guys come in and give us Jake Delhomme and Carlton Mitchell at QB and WR? Holmgren himself said SEVERAL TIMES that you're not gonna win anything in this league if you can't pass the ball really well, game after game after game. Everybody in the league knows that.

Did 3H really decide they'd get their franchise quarterback AND #1 WR next year? Did they really look at Robiskie and Massoquoi and see legit starters?

I look at most of the other areas on this team and can't feel too bad about what they hoped would happen: On the line, they brought in Lauvao and Pashos to go with Womack and St. Clair, figuring that would end with two good right side starters. Pashos has somehow disappeared and Lauvao has an ankle issue nobody will talk about, but seems to be epidemic in Cleveland.

At running back, Harrison and Davis were augmented with Hardesty and Hillis. Tough to argue with that. Watson was added to Moore. Fujita and Gocong were added to Jackson, Bowens, and Benard (although I expected us to draft another OLB pass rusher). The defensive backfield was job #1. The DL was returning an emerging Rubin, Rogers, Coleman, and Smith... but could've used at least a third round pick.

But for the most part, I wasn't stunned by what we did anywhere but at QB and WR.

So what's the plan? We now need a dominant player at BOTH positions... very badly and undeniably. We don't need any more 2nd or 3rd round WRs. We need one of the best couple in the draft. Yet we also need Andrew Luck.

In a way, the Browns MUST make the Kolb trade happen and Heckert MUST be right bout Kolb. We've painted ourselves into a bit of a corner.

If anything "genius" has happened so far under the Holmgren regime? I missed it.

[hammertime]

what would classify as 'genious'?

first draft has garnered min. 3 starters. core players.

what they havn't done is anything 'flashy' i'm not on the kolb bandwagon at all. i hope we don't go that direction.

i'm gonna wait till week 8 to get all negative. by then we'l either be pumped about getting the #1 pick or excited at the progression of what we already haveon the roster.

either way, we all know next year will be better.

[Masters]

Isn't it possible the Kolb trade talk is nothing but media speculation, because Heckert drafted him when he was in PHI?

If PHI is giving up on Kolb (not sold they are giving up and that this isn't both protection because of the concusion and that PHI line right now can't protect a drop back QB) this fast, isn't that a bit of a red flag?

Does anyone really believe Vick is PHI long term solution?

[Masters]

Originally Posted by hammertime

either way, we all know next year will be better.

At least that's what we tell ourselves every year....lol

[damajuki]

Shep, great OP and good points.

They must have been thinking two things (really, just the first one with the second as corollary)

1. Jake was healthy and could play again and would also provide the leadership and stability needed at QB.
2. A healthy, fiery Jake was going to help Mo and Robo grow up and would find Chansi and Josh enough to make them real weapons at WR.

To be fair, that plan did seem to be working -- for most of the first half of the first game, until Jake got hurt and threw the Unforgivable Pick.

So, maybe a dash of optimism and fairness here:

Jake got hurt. Our backup QB is playing; that generally does not bode well for a team.

And maybe you (shep), never viewed Jake as a legit starter but clearly the team did.

So, maybe the truth is that you never liked the plan, and now that it's been derailed, you get to ask what the plan was?

[PlaygroundLegend]

Round 1: Jake Locker

Round 2: Jonathan Baldwin

Round 3:Rahim Moore

There goes 3 people I know we wont be drafting, even though they are the answer

[Shep]

Originally Posted by Masters

Isn't it possible the Kolb trade talk is nothing but media speculation, because Heckert drafted him when he was in PHI?

If PHI is giving up on Kolb (not sold they are giving up and that this isn't both protection because of the concusion and that PHI line right now can't protect a drop back QB) this fast, isn't that a bit of a red flag?

Does anyone really believe Vick is PHI long term solution?

Unfortunately, I kinda think you might be right. Which scares me more than it should because I'm that desperate to have a young franchise QB in the fold.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Shep, I dont think Kolb is that guy, dont want to go chasing unicorns man, theres something missing from his game, he diddnt show that same spark in the preseason and in the first game that he did a year ago, he was holding onto the ball way too long, and it seemed that if the big play wasnt there he diddnt want to check it down

He's very Jeff Garcia, only not Jeff Garcia at all

[Vegasdogg]

Does the OBR know your lifting their paid content?

Interesting topic. Don't have time now to respond other than we had an offense AND a defense ranked below 30.

We added picks to the D. Did we somehow have 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks that I don't know about?

Hard to understand how on the one hand we know it's a pass dominant league, but in the other hand we don't like choosing DB's high. Wierd.

They have a plan.

[Shep]

Strangely, I don't get their paid content anymore. Haven't for about 6 weeks.

I'll buy the improvement to the pass defense, because I can see it. Those two guys do show up, although Ward more than Haden. I still think the key to stopping high powered pass offenses will be the pass rush... but we're showing some life in that area.

Are we really ranked 30th in defense averaging 16.5 points given up a game? That's unusual (I'm assuming you mean yardage). That's a lot of yards and not many points.

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Does the OBR know your lifting their paid content?

Interesting topic. Don't have time now to respond other than we had an offense AND a defense ranked below 30.

We added picks to the D. Did we somehow have 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd round picks that I don't know about?

Hard to understand how on the one hand we know it's a pass dominant league, but in the other hand we don't like choosing DB's high. Wierd.

They have a plan.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Vegas

Hard to understand how on the one hand we know it's a pass dominant league, but in the other hand we don't like choosing DB's high. Wierd.

I used to read a lot of stuff about game theory and junk, and I'm going to suggest this and see if you guys agree with it being applicable to football:

You need to be a great defense to stop a very good offense. With a great offense, it's hard to stop it even with a great defense. This is simply because there are more problems (quality WRs) than answers (quality DBs) can often handle. A great example of this is the Jets v. Colts game, where that great Jets defense got mauled by Peyton Manning and friends.

Revis can only cover one person at a time. If the new rules necessitate someone around Revis' level (or say perhaps, Haden, who was a #7 overall) to stop ONE WR, you have a heavy investment in a singular unit that is also a rare commodity. Yes Haden/Revis/whoever will help the defense in shutting down one guy, but it's like shoving sealant into just one hole in the boat. Water will leak everywhere else.

You need to have a heavy investment to stop the passing game - and that just stops the passing game. You still need to have an offense capable of scoring points against opposing defenses. With the cap you have a limited amount of resources and spending heavily on the rare commodity of quality DB, that singular pick doesn't have as large as an impact on the team simply because one guy isn't an army.

The rules right now are set up so it's easier to be the guy posing problems than it is to be the guy answering the questions, QBs and WRs have a large amount of protection and aid that gives them a significant boost over DBs. It's a passing league, yes, but that doesn't mean you can have success by committing more resources to stopping the pass - the whole point is that the pass is HARD to stop, it has a great advantage via rule boosts, so your investment in your DBs has to be really high to stop it which makes it a bad comparative value to just being great on offense.

The pass is simply a great option right now, not the preferred option that's the flavor of the month.

[Vegasdogg]

In 2009 we were ranked below 30 in both. Not sure what 2010 rankings are. Little early for that anyway.