Should Tom Heckert Be Fired?

[Crow]

did I mention i watched inception?

good movie

[Vegasdogg]

Funny for a guy who is supposed to have deep inner pain I only have two people I have drama with, the same people who have multiple drama's with multiple posters. You're just whiny about it because I'm relentless and won't give in.

You're the one posting the same topics over and over dude. I'm just always there to tell you how full of shit you are. And you are full of shit dude.

You left here to get away from the people who wouldn't give in. Welcome back.

I've been on a few boards for over 10 years now and I've never in my life seen a poster utterly trash one board, then go back to that board to trash the board he left, then reverse course and trash the other board to go back to the board he just trashed - all in a matter of 4 weeks.

That's lack of character and maturity. It's someone lacking conviction. And that I will never respect.

And you're really bad with your football takes as well. You softened up to KOK because he is destroying you in the debate.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Shep

K, I think I liked a lot of that post. I had to work on a pitch last night and this morning and I'm kinda fried. But I do think you're a good poster. Not Shep good, mind you, but ... (!).

Veg? Hell, whatever. You're a consistent waste of time.

You just respected KOK a little more because you saw how he signed off at the bottom as Tom F. We've got some sick basterds in here that are absolutely adorable. I just lost a mouthfull of coffee when I saw the name he chose to punctuate his double testamented post with. God bless him!

For what it's worth - I thought KOK posted some very interesting stuff. I DO want to say how often I notice NOBODY wants to credit Mangini for problem solving Savage's blunders with fellers like Matt Roth, Marcus Benard and changing 4 scheduled draft picks for 2009 to 8. Instead, let's focus on how long it takes 2nd round WRs to develop when there's no Manning, Brady, Favre or Brees chucking strikes at them. Why should we be excited we have Marcus Benard when we can bitch David Veikune didn't pan out ? I mean Savage's Kam Wimbley from ROUND ONE (13th overall) was so uplifting when teams learned how easy it was to throw uncontested swing passes toward his flats. Yay! That was 13th overall pick that we just head straight for David Veikune's draft slot to gripe about right? Again, Marcus Benard is the best bang for the bunch at that position so let's pretend he doesn't exist at all rather than notice WHO found him.

While we're at it, Dallas was a playoff team PRE-Dez Bryant. They're 0-2 right now so where on earth is the colossal passing game difference maker? So do they blame the Head Coach for not having 1 Tackle that can protect Romo when they drafted a WR in round 1 where they could have shored up 1 of those Tackle spots? Looked like Romo was throwing a TD pass to his second favorite target Roy Williams, which would have WON the game at Washington when a tackle got busted for holding. Don't worry about it though - at least they had Dez Bryant.

I keep HEARING Mangini didn't know HOW to draft and then I looked at NY's playoff team last year, the SAME way I looked at it in 2007. I saw talented draftees such as Nick Mangold, D'Brickashaw Ferguson, David Harris, Darrelle Revis, etc... Understanding, he inherited only 4 draft picks for 2009 - MOST people don't want to give him credit for adding 4 draft picks and rookie free agents such as Alex Mack, MoMass (how many more TD receptions does Dez have this year?), James Davis and Marcus Benard. How's that for handling the draft volume Phil left us??? I REALIZE drafting a Center isn't the sexiest draft pick in the world BUT when our alternative was a player Philly deemed to old for startsies 4-5 years ago - wasn't it pretty FREAKIN needed? We can pretend otherwise but we didn't finish 8th in rushing in 2008 or 2007 or 2006 AND teams knew all we could do was run the ball so they crammed 9-11 guys in the box.

And how else did Mangini KILL this franchise? Oh yaaa, he added Matt Roth at the price you can get most UNEMPLOYED NFL defenders at. Okay, DAMN YOU Mangini you dumb basterd! And how many games did Shaun Rogers and D'Qwell Jackson WIN for us? Oh wait, we didn't win 4 in a row until they were BOTH out of the lineup. Hmmmmm! And let me tell you how much fun it was waiting to see this Brodney Pool Phil saw that we never got treated to. Yaaa, I mean Phil Savage really had the Titanic steering clear of the glaciers didn't he? All that talk of "I'm here to IMPROVE our draft because that's how successful franchises are getting it done." The Eddie Haskell act was wonderful because I took the bait and this mouth ended up with a hook in it. Unfortunately, the next thing I knew we're losing draft picks and undergoing massive salary cap necrosis for the following names: QB Trent Doofus, CB Gary Baxter, LT Kevin Shaffer, LG Joe Andurzzi, NT Jason Fisk, OLB Antwaan Peek, LB Shante Orr, C LeCharles Bentley(I guess we also have to count the auditioners leading up to Fraley), C Hank Fraley, NT Shaun Smith, NT Ted Washington, DT Corey Williams, OLB Matt Stewart, WR Donte Stallworth, CB Kenny Marijuana-Wright, P David Zastudil, NT Shaun Rogers, DT Robaire Smith (best bang for the buck IMO) but you get the FREAKIN picture. You don't undo ALL that mess in your very first offseason especially when we add the existing QB debacle that was inherited.

And how many FA vets did we sign for 3-5 years but only received about 1 healthy season in return for? As much as I liked Joe Jurevicius - it seemed like I saw him more in blue jeans on Sundays during his 3 years here. Do people even know he was here quite a bit longer than the 12 games he played in 2007? Both RBs Reueben Droughns and Jamal Lewis gave us promising first years that led to contract extensions ONLY to see that blow up in our faces. I'm glad we could blame Mangini for Lewis; because Phil Savage had 0 to do with that right? I mean an owner wouldn't ask a Head Coach "why are we benching our millionaire RB for a guy I'm paying 5th round cake to" would he? Willie McGinest seemed like he played half our games. And what was up with begging a Mentally AWOL Ryan Tucker to return only to see him busted for steroids next? On top of that, how often was that guy ever even healthy? I could make this 40 more pages about very similar things so I'm being completely honest when I say I don't get how easy this challenge of turning that extended nightmare into an undefeated season after just 1 offseason. I'm reading several experts telling us how easy this was to fix. Just fire another new Head Coach and OC. I've seen that repeatedly since 1989.

There's a MAJOR reason alot of ideal candidates won't touch Cleveland with Rich's dick/micrometer; especially with ALL those great candidates that were beating down our door for an interview like Bill Cowher and Marty Schottenheimer right? We saw exactly how interested they were.

Where to from here? Well, how about FREAKIN understanding the bigger picture for a refreshing change? The reality is we are 2 plays away from being 2-0 vrs 2 teams that are 2-0. Last week was as simple as Dawson making the 40 yard FG he's paid extremely well to do. The week before it was as simple as not throwing the INT that ended up on our 3 yard line. It means we're STILL losing; but in 2008 most of our games were over in the first quarter right?

FWIW, most of our damage stems from starting us out with Trent Doofus and not even EXPLORING Drew Brees. You can blame Mangini all you want for the recent supply and demand of QBs; but Phil had 4 freakin years to upgrade that position while he was loading our 3-4 defense up with expensive dlinemen from 4-3 defensive schemes. We're right back to: "Fire the Coach so we can hire Barney's Fifes & Gomer's Pile as our next OC." We just like feeling like we're virgens with this shit or something! Unfortunately, 20 years of knee jerk practice makes perfect! Bottom line: if a Lerner is making a decision with his football background - guys like Mangini do NOT hire themselves or get their best buddies hire to be their immediate supervisor. When we understand this FREAKIN phenomenon - we have our very first chance at intelligent conversation.
- Tom F. (And I didn't feel like sayin FREAKIN but unlike Blue Oyster's Cults - I Fear the Reaper)

[Enigmatic Evil]

Flug, yet another great post and many excellent points raised.

That post has reminded me (yet again) that we haven't only been burned by poor drafting, but also by TERRIBLE free-agent market play. The amount of money sucked into those names you listed, I don't even want to think about that but the TINY to next-to-nothing return that we may have gotten from... a third of those names is even more irritating.

This season, we played the market a bit. People keep dogging Delhomme and are likely to until we have a different QB, but I think bringing in Benjamin Watson was a good move. He gives, well, whichever QB is in behind center that day a bit of safety.

Holmgren and Heckert, those are the first two names that have been associated with this team (maybe aside from Chris Palmer and what a raw deal he got...) but more-so than that. We as fans KNOW that they have been a part of successful teams. In Heckert's case, he's helped build a successful team so we KNOW what he is capable of as a GM. We've already seen what he can give us with ONE draft. Those who know our pass attack is in shambles

Heckert and Holmgren and even Mangini knows this, and it will be addressed in the NEAR future. Maybe even as soon as the Trade Deadline but who knows. I have faith we will continue to address the weak areas of the team and attempt to build the team through the draft as ALL the good teams do. Look at Washington, that should be the example of how NOT to build a team. We effectively were doing the same thing. Reaching at "big buzz" picks in the draft and burning on grabbing "name" FA's who ended up ding eff all for us.

The attitude adjustment has begun on the team, and it's only a matter of time before we, The FANS, start to see a pay-off for it. I don't think this year is our year and that's why I have been stressing watching the team GROW, IMPROVE and hell we might even win some games... though as of yet, that's been a tough task. Guess we will see what today brings.