Blowing sunshine about the Browns

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

This first round is also the largest source of first round QBs who bust and set thier team back 3-5 years.

And you can't fail any bigger then that. You don't just pick one in the first round because you need one. You pick one because you believe he's a winner, has all the intangiables and you have done all the homework that could be done. You don't take a flier here. Or else you wind up with Akili Smith, Tim Couch, J Russell, Alex Smith, Leinhart, Brady Quinn and all the way back to Ryan Leaf.

All those teams got set back big time. We are where we are know because Someone fell in love with Quinn.

There will be a lot of teams sucking wind for years after the love affair ends with this QB years heavy draft class.

You don't just take one because you need one and one is on the board.............you better be sure, or as sure as one can be. Could you imagine where we would be and how much longer we would suck if our GM and Pres listened to Shep and we took Clausen with the 7th pick in the draft.

They all look pretty in college playing a spread defense and against teams that may have only one or two quality DBs. Somebody is always open and you have all day, that isn't what this level is about.

[Shep]

Any time you pick a player in the top 10 and pay him a big bonus... and he busts... it's a setback in more ways than one. You have to hear about all the players you could have had.

But the one sure way to NOT get your Manning, Rivers, Rodgers, Sanchez, etc., is to stop trying. The Browns haven't picked a premium bonus baby QB since 1999 (Quinn got shit)... and just about every other team in the league has picked a guy since then.

I'm open to other avenues that have some precedent... Kolb would be our Hasselbeck or, given his draft position, Favre. But it's HIGHLY unlikely this team is going to be relevant until they address the most important position in team sports as priority number one, with the highest degree of commitment.

It's not the place to search for bargains. Ideally, your QB is your best and highest paid player, because you want your money on the position with the most impact. And that's not even close.

[Sez.EJ]

Kolb is hardly a finished product and could be a bust.. I'd not bet the farm on him.. Teams are actually lucky Vick got hurt so they can see more of him and determine if he's starter quality or not.. I'm not yet convinced. He looked better last week than the week before.. but often looked confused and a bit lost.. I'm not sold on him.. I would be very nervous trading picks for him.. I like this years QB class....IF IF IF we decide to go that way.. Colt may surprise all of us.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Shep

You're saying stuff... but it doesn't refute anything at all.

No need to, you were already destroyed when you tried this game 6 months ago.

Originally Posted by Shep

That's called ree-al-i-tee, K. Like everyone else you've ever met, it doesn't care what you think.

Must be why people ask me what I think regularly then, aye? Glad you know so much about my personal life. So personal. Are you really THAT pussyhurt noone on here respects you nor gives a flying fuck what you have to say? My my.

Originally Posted by Shep

What is it you do that deludes you into thinking you know anything about football? Why would it be more informative than any other career?

See unlike you I wasn't up in the bleachers jacking off to the Quarterbacks on the sidelines, i've actually played the game. I've actually conversed and picked the brains of former NFL players. Guys with these big shiny rings on their fingers. I believe they call them Superbowl rings. As well as, you know, actual coaches and scouts.

By actual coaches and scouts I don't mean asskissing Blockbuster Video employees(until the guy running the site gets fed up and 'douchey' like the gang) for the opinions they gripped from other wannabes. See Shemp, ask around the board. There isn't anyone except you that thinks I am clueless about football. EVERYONE however thinks your lack of football acumen is a fucking joke.

You can try to spin that however the fuck you want to, you can do your "nya nya no you" shit all you want it. It still doesn't change the FACTS. The re-al-it-y of the matter.

[Masters]

When I see "that's called ree-al-i-tee" from you Shep, is that the same ree-al-i-tee you tried to feed me and other when the notion that Alex Smith as "emerged" was challenged? You may not care what KOK things, which is fair. In the big scheme, I don't either. But you best realize that the same applies to you. No one actually cares what you think. There are only a couple of posters that most care what they actually think. You aren't one of them, just as I'm not, KOK isn't, and countless others. We realize this. The question you need to ask yourself is do you realize it. Fact is, you could disappear from this board and life would go on just fine. The only place that might suffer is that section of the board these last few posts will be moved to. K.

On that note, I think it is time for me to take another hiatus. I suspect when I return Shep I think you'll still be a center of drama, none of which you will take responsibility for and blame on some secret internet message board gang that's out to get you.

[damajuki]

I honestly don't get the discussion over 1st round QBs vs. all other QBs. What is the dispute, exactly?

Is anyone disagreeing with the fact that the most successful (i.e., winning) QBs usually come from the first round, usually the very top no less? Outside of Tom Brady, the exception that proves the rule, and Drew Brees (#33, I think), which winning QB isn't a 1st rounder?

You could say Romo but he really hasn't won anything yet. Here was KoK's list from above: "Drew Brees, Chad Henne, Brett Favre, Kevin Kolb, Kyle Orton(who is owning numerous first round jackoffs), Matt Cassel, Tim Hasselbeck, Shaun Hill and Bruce Gradkowski are all starters in the NFL right now. Along with Tom Brady, Tony Romo, Max Hall and David Garrard"

Again, most of these guys haven't won anything while the high 1st round guys (the Mannings, Rapist Ben) have won SBs.

So, yes, you CAN win with non-1st round QBs but it's fairly rare and finding that non-1st rounder is less successful. So what's the argument for going that route?

[damajuki]

Originally Posted by Shep

I'm not allowed to start threads (I thought that was just for a few weeks, GABE and SPEC!!!)... but this is an amazing story. My son Jack has never lived in Cleveland but worships the Browns and talks about living in Ohio when he grows up... so this really hit home. I think of moving back all the time, living in Shaker Heights and walking to the train to CBS.

Eric Barr moves to Cleveland to follow the Browns | cleveland.com

I just read that! It posted at 8 p.m.

Funny how loyalty is passed on. Part of me feels bad programming my son with my favorites. The other part of me loves when he cheers for my teams just because it makes me happy.

In the end, we are our father's sons so I don't feel too badly. We have few traditions nowadays; let football be one, I suppose.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by damajuki

I just read that! It posted at 8 p.m.

Funny how loyalty is passed on. Part of me feels bad programming my son with my favorites. The other part of me loves when he cheers for my teams just because it makes me happy.

In the end, we are our father's sons so I don't feel too badly. We have few traditions nowadays; let football be one, I suppose.

I feel proud when I meet kids or even women who are diehard Browns fans with the state of this team the last twenty freaking years. I always say it says a lot about their character. As I have repeatedly said there are so many Pitt fans around Ohio anymore that it is disgusting.

It's not about team bragging anymore it's about pride in that you support the goddamn team you are supposed to, not the enemy across the border. That's our main argument against those fuckheads and it generally keeps them at bay. Deep down they know it, and when this thing finally gets turned around for good they are going to regret it.

People are just lying in wait to blow up over this team. One of the reasons some of us around here get tired of the constant negativity is because we do want to be optimistic about the team in some fashion, it is all we have to cling to. Browns fans have a bond like no other.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by damajuki

I honestly don't get the discussion over 1st round QBs vs. all other QBs. What is the dispute, exactly?

It's mainly about agendas, Damajuki. On one side you have the people who recognize draft numbers are just that, numbers and that talent is found throughout the draft regularly, and just because a guy was drafted on a certain number doesn't mean shit is written in stone. On the flipside you have a fetishist obsessed with quarterbacks, especially overhyped first rounders, who insists that it has to be a first rounder or it's carved into golden tablets, the other type won't succeed.

On one side you have guys like Gabe, Riff, Sez ect ect who would rather give a rookie QB an honest fucking chance to prove or disprove himself, and WANT to be optimistic about the possibility. On the other you have a crybaby who longs for the Phil Savage era when we'd mortgage multiple picks or blow first rounders on whatever prospect gets Kipers dick hard that year.

Here's what it boils down to, you can find talent in the 1st, in the 2nd, in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, UDFA, free agency what the hell ever. If you know how to COACH UP that talent you will have success. If you don't? It doesn't fucking matter. You may hit, you may miss. The funny thing on this debate? How the amount of 1st round quarterback misses there are. The NFL is FILLED with those beefcake 1st round quarterbacks that never amounted to squat. Yet the way it's spun that only happens after the first. Shit, we're supposed to be questioning Holmgren right now because he had mid to late round busts at QB. Funny it is, better that than missing on a $50 million dollar investment.

That said, as to this "1st round centric" bullshit, go look up the greatest linebackers in NFL history. Out of a few dozen great ones you'll find maybe 5 outside of the first to mid 2nd round. Compare it to QB's for yourselves. Make up your own minds and don't just swallow it because some pimply faced teenager at Blockbuster Video says it. Then go compare them to other positions. Decide for yourselves ladies and gents.

[RPrepublic]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

It's mainly about agendas, Damajuki. On one side you have the people who recognize draft numbers are just that, numbers and that talent is found throughout the draft regularly, and just because a guy was drafted on a certain number doesn't mean shit is written in stone. On the flipside you have a fetishist obsessed with quarterbacks, especially overhyped first rounders, who insists that it has to be a first rounder or it's carved into golden tablets, the other type won't succeed.

On one side you have guys like Gabe, Riff, Sez ect ect who would rather give a rookie QB an honest fucking chance to prove or disprove himself, and WANT to be optimistic about the possibility. On the other you have a crybaby who longs for the Phil Savage era when we'd mortgage multiple picks or blow first rounders on whatever prospect gets Kipers dick hard that year.

Here's what it boils down to, you can find talent in the 1st, in the 2nd, in the 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, UDFA, free agency what the hell ever. If you know how to COACH UP that talent you will have success. If you don't? It doesn't fucking matter. You may hit, you may miss. The funny thing on this debate? How the amount of 1st round quarterback misses there are. The NFL is FILLED with those beefcake 1st round quarterbacks that never amounted to squat. Yet the way it's spun that only happens after the first. Shit, we're supposed to be questioning Holmgren right now because he had mid to late round busts at QB. Funny it is, better that than missing on a $50 million dollar investment.

That said, as to this "1st round centric" bullshit, go look up the greatest linebackers in NFL history. Out of a few dozen great ones you'll find maybe 5 outside of the first to mid 2nd round. Compare it to QB's for yourselves. Make up your own minds and don't just swallow it because some pimply faced teenager at Blockbuster Video says it. Then go compare them to other positions. Decide for yourselves ladies and gents.

Well said!! For instance I for one have no problem if Heckert/Holmgren decide to grab a first round QB this year, but i would like to see a first and second round DL draft and fill other holes after that this year. Just my opinion and it doesn't matter because HH will do what they feel is best. I would just like to see a solid defense that can control a game.