Anyone See This yesterday?

alporcini · #13 (**permalink**) 10-25-2010

I know that he replaced Zatsudil last season, but where has this guy been hiding... he's an athlete!... man, has he excelled at pinning the opposition within their own ten... love this guy...

Greythan · #14 (**permalink**) 10-25-2010

Not sure why Flugs has such a hard on for big Z. You simply can't predict the injury bug.

Z was a good signing. A Cleveland kid who wanted to play here. When he was on the field, he generally delivered the goods. Solid punting.

I don't think his contract impacted our ability to sign other FA's so what's the beef here? That we didn't somehow predict that he'd be injury prone? Really?

When Z's healthy, the team will make a value decision and pick a punter. Its a punter after all. Let's not get too worked up here.

hiwaygal · #15 (**permalink**) 10-25-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greythan

Its a punter after all.

Punters Win Championships!!!

lol

Flugel · #16 (**permalink**) 10-25-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Keeping Hodges on is a no-brainer. While I was up in chat during the game yesterday, I mentioned digging up the old Reggie Hodges hate thread to laugh at all the people who trashed the guy. I'm sure it was mainly the usual suspects.

LOL! I got clobbered when I started that thread following our preseason game with the Packers.

And the reason it happened was because we have a bunch of fans that want Mangini gone at all costs. Therefore, the choice was - "hey Hodges was a GOOD problem solve" OR showing me 1 of 8 variables on a chart they measure punters by. I stuck to the lack of return yards meaning our punter didn't often outkick our coverage teams for self glory purposes over team concept. Some tried informing me there were countless unemployed punters that could have done better in 2009. I took notice at how frequently he pinned Pitt deep last years. He did it 4 times vrs Pitt this year.

Anyway, my comment started out that I was glad to se Hodges pin the Packers deep in the preseason outing like he seemed to do down the stretch of 2009. I just said this guy was a great find considering Zastudil ended another season early again.

I hope this franchise has learned about puttign all their marbles into FAs. The trio of Heckert, Holmgren and Mangini seemed like it did pretty good in the 2010 draft if everyone stays healthy.
- Tom F.

Flugel · #17 (**permalink**) 10-25-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greythan

Not sure why Flugs has such a hard on for big Z. You simply can't predict the injury bug.

Z was a good signing. A Cleveland kid who wanted to play here. When he was on the field, he generally delivered the goods. Solid punting.

I don't think his contract impacted our ability to sign other FA's so what's the beef here? That we didn't somehow predict that he'd be injury prone? Really?

When Z's healthy, the team will make a value decision and pick a punter. Its a punter after all. Let's not get too worked up here.

Fair enough Grey. I think it warrants an explanation of where I'm coming from. I'm actually wondering so many are blindly loyal to keeping Zastudil's highest FA punter prices when we have a guy on the NFL's version minimum wages leading the league in the most important stat a punter can have.

You're questioning why I like that problem solve of Hodges better than I like 1 more high priced FA we brought here with an empty exchange value. Folks, we gotta start realizing talent that can't suit up more than they wear blue jeans can't help this team win any more than the water boys. In fact, they're less helpful if we're being honest. Too many of the Zastudil optimists are refusing to see just how easily Mangini got us a better bang for the buck.

I'm done feeling sorry for players that can't ever be healthy once they've got dream salaries thrown their way Grey. I'm not trying to be a mean spirited person here as much as I'm a frustrated fan looking at 1 more high paid hopeful turning nopeful. Been there, done that, did it again, and again, and again, and again, and he we are stuck on pause because of it.

Let's say/pretend you bought tickets for a Fleetwood Mac concert back in the day. They had an all star cast of musicians you just didn't mind paying their asking price for at the live entertainment exchange value you perceived their show offered. Now you show up to the non-refundable concert only to learn Stevie Nicks has laryngitis and many of your favorite songs are no longer gonna be played that night. Are you a happy fan that night or do you just leave there saying humans get sick so they deserves every penny I paid? What if it happened 3 years in a row, are you as patient with the trend? This has been going on in Cleveland since Roy Barker (coming off 12 sacks in SF), Irv Smith and Jerry Ball came here without ambition in 1999.

I'm fed up with this franchise getting lit in the fanny at the exchange values we received for the commitments/monies rendered. It's just become too widespread to ignore any more. You made some valid points that Zastudil doesn't want to be injured but 3 strikes and you're out in my book or the word REMAINS out in the NFL: "hey, come to Cleveland where you won't have to sweat for 7 digit salaries. Donte Stallworth can tell you how to get 2 signing bonueses in 365 days for just 1 TD reception. He can also remind you that hammy pulls are only measure by what's your pain on a scale of 1-10?" More specifically, an overwhelming TON of our free agents showed up ready to wear blue jeans on Sundays and cash paychecks on weekdays.

Understanding, what I just said, I never UNDERSTOOD the lack of respect Steinbach has received since before the 2009 regular season started. He's PLAYED in spite of a back injury too many of our other free agents wouldn't have bothered to suit up with. And if anyone ever watches him hustle to the second tier to get additional blocks in or witnesses soem of his trapping or pulling - he's pretty freakin good at his trade. He's also saavy when he needs to be with tricks of the trade; which has helped 2 different rookies in recent years (Thomas & mack) as well.

And even though it is ONLY a punter, go watch what rendered Pittsburgh conservative enough to beat in 2009. It was pinning them deep almost every time we punted. Field position pretty much created that outcome we witnessed yesterday with 1 QB being game management smart and the other being uncharacteristicly bad with decisions.
- Tom F.

Greythan · #18 (**permalink**) 10-25-2010

Fair enough Flugs. I guess I just don't get as frustrated by the injuries. To me, its something that happens to all franchises and I don't buy into any "snakebit" or "curse". Someone would have to show me emperical evidence that we've somehow been more impacted by FA injuries than normal.

So, for Z I just don't hold the same frustration.

AdaM · #19 (**permalink**) 10-25-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solon16

Here's what I liked about Savage...He Identified exactly what we needed to address on the football team...success's if you can call them that(at the time) were MLB,CB, Center LG, LT Qb,Rb,WR,OLB,S...he could see IMO what we desperately needed. And he pulled the fucking trigger and went out and wheeled and dealed for them.

What I didn't like.... He was dreadful talent evaluator, was a egotistical media whore. His moves looked great in 2007...after that reality set in!

No reply on zastudil being 3+ years older than hodges ol solon?

Flugel · #20 (**permalink**) 10-25-2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greythan

Fair enough Flugs. I guess I just don't get as frustrated by the injuries. To me, its something that happens to all franchises and I don't buy into any "snakebit" or "curse". Someone would have to show me emperical evidence that we've somehow been more impacted by FA injuries than normal.

So, for Z I just don't hold the same frustration.

That's okay Grey. I forgot to tell you in my last reply it wasn't Zastudil giving me the hard on that concerned you. It was that HOT picture of Raquels Welch next to your screen name you treated me to. God bless ya! My wood factor went from basla to sekoya so I owe you some thanks.

In any event, the title of this thread wasn't meant to be negative. It was actually an appreciation of a necessary problem solve turning out pretty good for us. However, I was pretty surprised people are so willing and ready to toss Hodges when the 12th of Never brings us a healthy Dave Zastudil for an entire season. Histroy trends are such a great educational tool that kids study history in school so they learn from it in preparation for the future. My big question is what's up with all the blind loyalty to someone we've offered up the highest FA salary to at the position while it's the guy on the NFL minimum wage for that position leading the league with 9 punts inside the 10 yard line?

IMO, the mere thought of keeping Zastudil here for 1 more year of sweet nothings just keeps us in that empty exchange value we've been punched in the mouth with from overcommitment to free agency over the years. The Savage plan of tossing most of our marbles into overpaying many of the wrong FAs and guys with best playing days in the rear view mirror has killed us. It exposed how bad he was at drafting that he gave up enormous draft volumes in 2008 and 2009. I can't look forward to the same symptoms unless I'm okay with 4-5 wins every year. I'm not. That's what Zastudil represents to me when I see an opportunistic guy extremely happy to rpove himself at a fraction of the cap hit.

Punting is more important than people think when we're trying to WIN the field position batlte while simultaneously providing our rookie QB and defense with some degree of margin of error.

While we're on the subject ofbangs for the buck, Delhomme and Wallace came herew with larger contracts than Colt McCoy. Guess who's gives us the best chane to win on Sundays? The guy that wants to prove he belongs in this league by NOT giving up the pic 6's Delhomme did vrs the Bucs(it ended up on the 2 yard line on a day our D was Stopping their offense from any long TD scoring drives). And then Wallace's pic 6 vrs KC on a day we lost by 2 points just reminds me how important it is to DRAFT the right players. When you draft the right guys, your salary cap loses a ton of cholesterol and the heart of the franchise get smore efficient and credible.

I'm soooo done with all these FA hotshots that have chronic muscle pulls and wear and tear injuries keeping them from remembering what it is the Browns were so willing to give them top $ for in the first place. It kills us. What's to be happy about in seeing history repeat itself with Dave Z? It makes the Browns look like a franchise where the Bill Cowhers and great candidates shouldn't ever want to be. That's what that does for us so I encourage you to demand more as well. It doesn't make you a bad fan. It makes you one that welcomes progress via learning from mistakes. One year of injury might be understandable. That said, we're talking about a punter with 3 straight years of injury when he's rarely asked to hit anyone in practice or very infrequently on game day. Mind boggling the guy never gets injured until all 3 years he's under contract with the most generous salary of his life. There's my rationale for the unwillingness to welcome 1 more overpaid stiff that doesn't help us.

It's hard to agree it happens with ALL franchises for 11 straight years; because I would need to see 1 example of this to the magnitude of what the Browns have been through. Teams like Pitt and Baltimore don't throw away half of their drafts ever because they CAN draft so they should draft. It just makes for a healthier cap and the environment of bringing in guys with a desire to prove themselves. The alternative to that here has been paying guys that are too satisfied with previous accomplishments elsewhere that they're entitled to the $ in Cleveland regardless of effort. If we don't stop this trend - there's your answer why most of the right head coach candidates won't consider Cleveland while we as fans demand instant success.
- Tom F.