On the topic of our Wide Recievers: their production explained

[DeadWombat]

Just the facts....

Our current WR corp consists of:

• Mohamed Massaquoi
• Brian Robiskie
• Josh Cribbs
• Chansi Stuckey
• Carlton Mitchell

MoMass and Robo were both 2nd round picks made by ManKok last year. ManKok also acquired Stuckey through the Braylon trade. With the exception of Mitchell, who never sees the field, our WR corps has stayed the same since last year. They're all quite young and can continue to improve their game as the year finishes. Now, the coaches have repeatedly given praise to our WR corps during preseason and even into the regular season. This part I find especially interesting because I myself have been frustrated at the lack of production and to be honest after watching our WRs through the weeks, I just don't think that our WRs are that good. I know a lot of people would agree with me, too. However, despite this:

• Mangini said Robiskie had improved by leaps and bounds during the preseason
• Our front office decided not to persue any top WR prospects in the draft
• They also did not sign any elite WR free agents this season (there were quite a few to choose from this year)
• Niether have they shown any interest to bring in a top WR through a trade.
• Holmgren has said that he believes the WRs are fine.
• Mangini has expressed several times through the year that he has faith in the WR corps.

Yet, the stats don't agree with what we're hearing.... Here's the side of the story that we're much more familiar with:

[table=60%][tr=tcat][td]Player[/td][td]Rec[/td][td]Yds[/td][td]TD[/td][/tr][tr=alt1][td]Massaquoi[/td][td]9[/td][td]115[/td][td]1[/td][/tr][tr=alt2][td]Robiskie[/td][td]8[/td][td]61[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][tr=alt1][td]Cribbs[/td][td]14[/td][td]185[/td][td]1[/td][/tr][tr=alt2][td]Stuckey[/td][td]21[/td][td]213[/td][td]1[/td][/tr][tr=alt1][td]Mitchell[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr][/table]


Our most productive WR has been Chansi Stuckey, who so far ranks 87th in the entire NFL for receptions and 103rd for total yards. That's right... there are 87 other players in the entire NFL who have caught more balls than our most productive WR. Spread across 32 teams, that means that every team has 2 players that have out-produced our best WR (including ourselves), and most teams have 3 players. If your wondering, our players are Benjamin Watson and Peyton Hillis, who have 30 for 336 yds and 27 for 192 yards respectively. Holy hell... that's just.... just abysmal.

So what gives?

Well, if any of you have seen Mike Holmgren's recent interview, (go here if you havn't read it... but I'm warning you: its very long: http://www.barkinghard.com/forums/cl...11-2-10-a.html) he really sheds a lot of light on our current WR situation and I find it very interesting. We're going to look at a few parts of that interview. Here's an excerpt that I think is really revealing. He gives a 3 part answer explaining the lack of production from our WRs.

“I think certain schemes, if you will, you get used to,” Holmgren said when asked why the wideouts aren’t bigger parts of the offense.

“There’s an emphasis to work the middle of the field here with our tight ends, our backs and then the slot receiver (Chansi) Stuckey. That’s part of it. The second part of it is we don’t throw as many balls here as I have thrown over the years, so the numbers aren’t going to be as great. The third thing I think is you have to ask yourself about the receivers, but they do not get as many touches as I am used to.

Holmgren states that Brian Daboll's offense does not feature the WRs that much. I think its no secret that Holmgren is unhappy with the lack of a featured passing game. The third reason he refers to is kind of vague but I think Holmgren was trying to say that it's not completely the fault of the schemes being run, but that the receivers themselves have to bear some of the responsibility. He does not expand on this, though. Would changing Daboll's playbook help? Keep in mind that Holmgren's ex-offensive coordinator Gil Haskell is floating around under the title of Senior Advisor to the President. We have someone who could do it.

“Brian has a belief in a system and how he moves the football, how he’s going to do it and if anyone were to interfere with that too much, it would really throw a monkey wrench in most things. We are going to play it out and see what happens.”

Holmgren says that it would be problematic to adjust Daboll's playbook too much, and I agree to an extent. You can't just add in a bunch of plays and tell Daboll to call them: Daboll has his style and you would be interfering with it. Its like trying to ask a classical piano player to ad-lib some jazz. There's an entire different mind-set and rules required to play both of those styles. Then, there's the players too. They've spent months practicing their schemes and adding in too many new ones would be disastrous for everyone to try and learn in mid-season.


Now, on the receivers...

“Let’s not jump on the receivers too much here,” Holmgren said. “ "I think they're OK. I think they're better than OK. Honest to goodness, I think they’re pretty good, but their numbers just haven’t been very good. Last year for obvious reasons, I think. This year for the reasons I stated. The emphasis seems to be Watson’s catching more passes, Stuckey’s catching more passes, our backs are catching more passes. I would like to see, as you would, our wide receivers catch more passes, but it’s not happening, and I think there are two or three reasons there that I stated [in the previous quote] as the reasons they’re not. ”

I really find it interesting that Holmgren backs the WRs because personally, I don't really think they're "pretty good".... I'm not sure if they're even "OK" based on what I see every week.

Well regardless, let me sum up a few things: those 2 or 3 reasons for our lack of WR production are...

• Daboll's offense doesn't feature a large passing game.
• When we do pass, the offense features our tight ends, slot receiver, and Hillis in the passing game more than our other WRs. Our WRs don't get targeted too often.
• That elusive 3rd reason is that the receivers themselves bear part of the responsibility of getting receptions, but Holmgren added that the gameplan does not help their case.

Holmgren is clearly unhappy with the way the passing game is being run, but is unwilling to change or interfere for several reasons. Part of the reason IMO is that Holmgren is reserving himself for the sake of letting Mangini and Co. run the show. Holmgren has expressed difficulty in keeping himself away from making coaching decisions in this interview and in the past as well. I can understand the tension Holmgren faces in trying to fulfill his role as president and not butt-in on Mangini's job.

So, what are your thoughts on this? On the topic of Daboll's playbook? Of Holmgren's decision to not interfere with the playcalling? Are our WRs really much better than their stats reflect? I dunno... but I think it's worth discussing.

[DawgFan]

As I stated in another thread...the Browns aren't exactly working with the best QB situation.

The starter is hurt and out.
The backup is hurt and out.
The 3rd stringer is a 3rd round 'project' who surprised us in Pitt but had a more rookie like performance in NO.
The top WR (MoMass) was out for the better part of 2 games.
The next WR (Cribbs) was out for most of 1 game.
The RT is still a work in progress.

Now, you add all that up and you get a conservative offense that will focus on TE's, slot and RB's...and if you didn't you would have McCoy as the sacrificial piece of meat behind center...especially vs teams like Pitt & NO.

Now, I might assume that we may see a little more this week because the Pats passing D is pretty porous, they don't get many sacks, and this is Colt's third week behind center and he had the benefit of the bye week.

Oh, and you might want to check on some of the other young QB's and their top receivers. Not to mention Tom Brady...who favors his TE, RB's and slot guy (Wes Welker).

There are more ways than one to skin a cat...or in this case a PAT...so I will take a win any way it comes.

[AdaM]

Really good post.

I have to believe that the receivers really are better than the stats show. None of us doubted the talent or skills of any of these kids when their names were called for a reason. I think holmgren shed a lot of light on why the production is so poor. It's not like our receivers lead the league in drops, they just don't have a QB who is good enough at getting the ball to them combined with a run/te/slot gameplan.

[Sez.EJ]

There are many different factors involved here.. it's impossible to point at one particular thing.. There are :the qb injuries, dealing with revolving qb's, dabolls play calling, dabolls system, experience of the Wr's , experience of McCoy, injuries to receivers, ,then.. talent of the WR's.. somewhere in that list ...a few of them linked together = the truth...

All I know.. it has to get better. Holmgren knows this and I believe will do something about it.. I think Daboll is gone because it's obvious Holmgren does not like his system.....but he's not going to change the system during the season..but when it's over.. Let's hope Daboll heard the presser and gets the WR's more involved within the system he currently has ti get these guys more involved right now.

We are in for changes in the offseason.. I don't think I am reading in too much to that.. I think it's a no brainer

[Masters]

Originally Posted by DawgFan

Now, you add all that up and you get a conservative offense that will focus on TE's, slot and RB's...and if you didn't you would have McCoy as the sacrificial piece of meat behind center...

It was already an O like that prior to McCoy ever seeing the field. It was that during pre-season, during Jake's healthy half, all of Seneca's starts, and all of last year.

You don't need Peyton Manning to throw a slant, call PA when the D is set up for it, to throw 5 and 10 yard quick outs.

I used to hear these same types of excuses when CLE has Carthon running what was about the exact same offensive scheme (heck I might have posted those excuses at that time).

[Sez.EJ]

Masters: Right on.. and we all know what happened to Carthon.

[MackTruck]

D is scared of his QB's. Very little surprise the Browns best passing was when a healthy JD was gunning in Tampa before the injury. The WR looked involved and it opened up the field.

JD gets injured and D goes conservative with Wallace, to about the Atlanta game and things start picking up playcalling wise and then Wallace gets hurt which leads towards JD coming in and looking like a wounded aging QB.

Now we have a rookie. D will be VERY conservative. The key is how much of the conservative play is Mangini's doing. Colt has alot to work on. His handlement of the pocket is poor and panics easily. That won't cut it in the NFL and will drive conservative playcalling. Teams will bunch the middle of the field and attack Colt all day long. I suspect Mangini and D will put it on the defense to win again.

[kydawgfan]

I think the way i have always thought about daboll and mangini as far as playcalling and gameplans go, They both suck at offense, Dabs does not trust his QBs enough for starters and pretty much runs a one dimensional offense because of it..
Hell yah i love a power running game but umm i also like to see spread confused defenses and an occasional successful strike down the field!
I think this teams players are much more talented than they are given credit for and the same frustration obviously burns in holmgrens veins as well..

Like i kept saying, you have to win with the talent you have which means being flexible and creative perhaps now that will happen but like mike says you cant force it on the coach or OC he has to figure it out himself or face holmgrens hammer at the end of the year possibly taking the weenie genie and unfortunately ryan with him...

I was glad holmgren spoke his mind i now feel a lot better about this teams front office intentions rather they release this whole coaching staff or just some of it, or choose to keep it intact...

[DaBrowns41]

Here's the problem:

Our wide receivers named Brian Robiskie and Mohammed Massaquoi cannot run routes, or get any separation.

Because they can't get open within just a couple of seconds, we dish the ball down to Peyton Hillis and Ben Watson, because both of them can make plays after the catch.

When Mo Mass gets open, he has trouble seeing the ball in.