Browns Season in Retrospect

[Enigmatic Evil]

Masters I cant give you more rep at this time but I think you make some valid points. It's good to have mindsets like yours around to bring things down to earth in a way that doesn't start hurling insults or petty one-liners. Really, a well informed opinion.

I think MoMass' criticisms are completely warranted. He's underachieved this year and you could chalk it up to a "Sophmore Slump" if you will, that's what I'm going to do under my orange and brown glasses. I'm not sold he's legit, I'm not sold he's even any good but he's what we have right now and he is not performing. This is why I am backing Stuckey.

Compare their stats for a second, our "4/5 on any other squad" reciever versus our "Could be a legit #2" reciever...

Stuckey has 31 receptions to date to MoMass' measly 19. MoMass however has a couple TD's to his credit and compare that to the big 0 that Stuckey has and that tips the needle back toward MoMass... There's some things that are harder to dig up in stats. Who's got the more first downs? That's a big one in my books, moving the chains enables more scoring. It's easy to look at their receptions alone and note that Stuckey has almost double MoMass' recievers. He runs better routs and has much better hands. Stuckey was also one of our most productive recievers last season as well... I dogged him hard because I wanted production from him immediately due to his role in the Braylon trade. He was who we got back, we're really not starting to see any kind of reward until this season. I'd argue he's shown us more in his two seasons with the Browns than MoMass has, yet he gets underwritten by virtually everyone.

Stuckey is third in receptions on this team to Peyton Hillis (who leads the team...) and Benjamin Watson, meaning that he is our leading reciever for receptions and yardage. Its worth noting as well that both Watson AND Evan Moore have more yardage than Stuckey... If Stuckey had some TD's this season we probably wouldn't be calling much into question and it's really the only knock against his play this season. I'm not trying to say Stuckey is a #1 guy. That would be ridiculous, but he is arguably the best reciever that we have. Route Running and mental gaffes were the biggest knocks against MoMass last season and they are prevalent this season as well.

At this point and time, I'd rank Stuckey > MoMass in the grander scheme of things. I don't want to completely write MoMass off because he had an over-achieving rookie season versus his expectations. Now that he has expectations he's under achieving and it's hurting this team. I'd like to see what Massaquoi can do in his third season heralding the often recognized "three year" rule for WR's... Right now though I'm not sure MoMass would even be our #2 guy if we got a considerable talent upgrade in the WR pool this off season comparable to say, the LB upgrade of last off season and frankly that goes for Stuckey as well...

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Originally Posted by Masters

From a personal stand point I think CLE is headed in the right direction. But that should be equaling wins and it isn't.

Sorry, we're all well aware of your dislike of Mangini, but this falls flat. Did you say one of the worst teams as far as talent in the entire NFL should be more competitive than they are while playing the toughest schedule in the league? Who in the league has less talent than the Browns? I wouldn't be surprised to go player by player down each roster, and find that even Buffalo has more talent.

This team is playing FAR above it's head right now in comparison to the talent they have, and that's a testament to coaching, not a negative.

[Vegasdogg]

In retrospect I knew the Browns would win some close games and lose some close games, they'd beat some they shouldn't and vice versa, and they've pretty much been what I have expected.

Knowing this was coming, it is myself that I am disappointed in -- I haven't handled these expectations that I predicted. I knew it would be hard but not enough to make me crazy.

[Sez.EJ]

Our WR corps ...all catches combined..does not even equal a good year for ONE decent WR.. We need a WR overhaul.. We need 2 DE's, S, MLB and RT.. then build depth. ..
This team is acually right where it should be with the lack of talent. I am impressed with the job Mangini has job keeping us in every game..playing smart football, within the system and in pretty much every single game this year even with being overmatched in talent by pretty much every team (but maybe Carolina today who is on par with us)

[MackTruck]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

Our WR corps ...all catches combined..does not even equal a good year for ONE decent WR.. We need a WR overhaul.. We need 2 DE's, S, MLB and RT.. then build depth. ..
This team is acually right where it should be with the lack of talent. I am impressed with the job Mangini has job keeping us in every game..playing smart football, within the system and in pretty much every single game this year even with being overmatched in talent by pretty much every team (but maybe Carolina today who is on par with us)

Yeah, but it ain't the WR fault they aren't getting the catches. Another thing, people don't want to admit too.

[Sez.EJ]

Yes.. it is very much the WR's fault they are not getting catches.. Not all on them.. but a large part of it.. if you cannot get separation and you cannot run the proper routes.. your not going to catch passes. Dabs offense is not WR friendly, QB is only a part of the equasion.. it is part of the problem...but not the biggest part.

[OzDawg]

I think the difference between Colt and Jake was apparent today. Colt is more accurate, more mobile, makes good decisions at LOS ...BUT Jake has vet experience and tossed a few nice looking passes to our wideouts. On the other hand, Jake throws more ints because of that!. Basic point is comfort zone and I trust Colt will find his(he watches the game tapes that he didn't play as well and makes his own analysis)

[Masters]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Sorry, we're all well aware of your dislike of Mangini, but this falls flat. Did you say one of the worst teams as far as talent in the entire NFL should be more competitive than they are while playing the toughest schedule in the league? Who in the league has less talent than the Browns? I wouldn't be surprised to go player by player down each roster, and find that even Buffalo has more talent.

This team is playing FAR above it's head right now in comparison to the talent they have, and that's a testament to coaching, not a negative.

Gabe, you got to let it go. I don't dislike Mangini per-say. I was in favor of his hiring. I think from a Monday to Friday he does a good job coaching. From a talent evaluation and Sunday part of his job, I think he is marginal at best. CLE does not have the worst talent in the league and didn't have that when he took over. Was it below average? Sure. The worst, not at all. CLE had and still has more over all talent at the start of the EM job than KC had at their start with Haley.

You want to tell me almost blowing a game against CAR, with multiple poor coaching game day decisions is worth giving props? When you lose 4 games in the 4th QTR when having the lead, that is on the HC. That comes down to play calls and clock management. He and Dabol fall short each week in my opinion

[Sez.EJ]

I like the job Mangini has done this year overall..but he does make some poor gametime decisions and is not good at in game adjustments.. These are critical for us to become a GREAT team some day. He has to get better.. or...

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

I like the job Mangini has done this year overall..but he does make some poor gametime decisions and is not good at in game adjustments.. These are critical for us to become a GREAT team some day. He has to get better.. or...

I wouldn't even go as far as saying to make CLE a great team. A HC needs to pull the right strings in those close games and get those wins when they are there. That's how you break the "losing culture" always talked about with CLE. Losing games like that defeat teams mentally. The next time the game is like that players start to be expecting the shoe to drop instead of expecting to pull the game out. Doubt in any players mind is a very bad thing to have.

[Enigmatic Evil]

A Head Coach should be able to MOTIVATE, to make tactical decisions that can change the shape of a game. They should be able to co-ordinate their team and help rally the troops when they're broken. In reality, though Mangini has gone to great lengths to be more personable in the media, and his system has change the team this way plays. We still have times where the team just looks unmotivated, though it's not nearly as bad as last season. Lack of adjustments seem to be the name of the game as far as coaching has been concerned this season and Mangini has a knack for wasting time outs. Those are my major knocks against the guy. I made a comment that a good head coach needs to be fired up when the Team is playing badly out there. Mangini WAS fired up and it was somewhat refreshing to see. Sometimes I just imagine he has that perma-sulk on and wants to cuddle up with his snuggie and a tub of Ben and Jerry's...