Browns vs Panthers, November 28th Gameday Thread

[Flugel]

I'd LOVE to see them yank Delhomme. I'm sick of the pic 6 crap this year. He officially should have retired. Can't sugarcoat it folks. When we handed off to Hillis we got 3 TDs. When we depended upon our passing game, we had a fumble at Carolina's 2 yard line, a Delhomme pic 6 and a Delhomme INT where Carolina missed a FG.

What in the world is the reason to be loyal to Delhomme over Wallace? There's a reason the people paying money to watch this game on the lakefront are booing. All we have to do is handoff; but if we're gonna throw play Wallace.
- Tom F

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Wallace isn't smart enough to run this offense. Delhomme looked good other than the 2 picks, and one was a great play by the defense, a defense btw that has a good secondary. He's rusty. I'd keep him out there until Colt gets back.

In fact, I now have some questions about Colt now that I have seen a real pro behind center. I'll get to that in another thread.

The INTs kill Delhomme, but there's a lot to like about him.

I question people who say we should win this game or we should win that game... are we more talented? Position vs. position, do we have more talent than the opposing team? If not we better win on smarts and hustle. 6-7 wins is what I was hoping for this year ...and I think most of us were right in that area. Even with the major injuries we've had to a team with zero depth, I bet we still get there.

[Browns_TSD]

SO glad we hung on! No way it should have been so tight, - and I finally went looking for the final score since this game's announcers have not said the result - but I'm proud of the team's resiliency! Thank you too, Peyton! (Or, should I have said "Thank you THREE, Peyton!"?!)

Browns_TSD.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

The INTs kill Delhomme, but there's a lot to like about him

LOL. Like what? That he hits WR's?

This dude has 6 INT's, 2 pick 6's (should be 3) and has only played in 2.5 games. He averages 1 pick 6 per game, and 2 INT's per game, and 0.33 TD's per game.

He does one thing very well -- he keeps the other team in the game.

He sucks.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Wallace isn't smart enough to run this offense.

You say that understanding Delhomme turned what should have been a blowout win into prayers at the end? Just LIKE the Tampa game - the Browns are in a position to clinch the game and Jake throws a pic 6. If Carolina had a decent kicker today - Cleveland loses because of Jake's turnovers Gabe. I didn't see a confident QB throwing TD passes out there today at all.

You CANNOT throw pic 6s in close games like this. 30 other NFL teams would have beaten the Browns with Jake's performance today. There's a rock solid reason he was booed most of the game today and I had nothing to do with it.

I feel like we deserved much better than winning by prayers and missed FGs today. If this perpetuates another start by Delhomme then I'm buying stock in the company selling Rosaries.
- Tom F.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Delhomme will get the start. Wallace can't manage the game. Either QB has his draw-backs, and I'm willing to give Delhomme a fair shake before putting him out to pasture. It was his first healthy game of the season, unfortunately without a healthy team.

[DaBrowns41]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Wallace isn't smart enough to run this offense. Delhomme looked good other than the 2 picks, and one was a great play by the defense, a defense btw that has a good secondary. He's rusty. I'd keep him out there until Colt gets back.

I'm sorry, but I can't agree.

Delhomme was off on quite a few of his throws, and was bailed out by solid catches from his receivers more often than not.

If anything, I'm surprised at how well Robiskie and Mass played, although Mass still can't run a route.

[Sez.EJ]

I hated the QB sneak on 3rd and 1/4 of a yard when we have Hillis.. Dumb Daball very dumb call. Nearly cost us the game.. Colt is already a better decision maker than Jake. Jake played well but could have easily had 4-5 int's in this game.. He made some great throws and can be so amazingly accurate it even looked like Robo was open.. (ok he was on a couple).. Our recieving corps is terrible..we never stretched the field..they can cover every one of our guys with 1 man.

Our WR corps needs an offseason enema.

Our D cannot stop the run..singing the same song every year.. again begging for DE's to be drafted.. 7th year in a row...please please please.. draft some DE's high.. The first round is packed with them this year.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Delhomme will get the start. Wallace can't manage the game. Either QB has his draw-backs, and I'm willing to give Delhomme a fair shake before putting him out to pasture. It was his first healthy game of the season, unfortunately without a healthy team.

If he plays the same way vrs Miami - they'll win by at least 3 TDs and their defense scores once or twice. Carolina is arguably the worst team in the NFL right now and Delhomme put them right in the game whne he should have helped the browns pull away. Did he make SOME nice passes vrs a bad football team? Yes, but let's keep it in perspective.

Please don't think I enjoy saying that but I know what I saw. I wasn't one of Delhomme's naysayers early on and I STILL think he had a nice career. Wallace is way better than this and the chorus of over 50,000 booing today reflected as much.

I'm not a Jake hater and I even appreciate how helpful he's been to McCoy. Unfortunately, I think he's the worst option we have at QB today. If this staff starts Delhomme again, I think they're gonna keep the unhappy faces they left the field with today. It was F-ugly football praying for the worst team in the NFL to miss 2 FGs. I think we got more respect losing to the Jets in overtime than this passing body by Jake today.
- Tom F.

[Enigmatic Evil]

See I'm torn... Seneca effectively is only comfortable throwing from one side of his body. Yes, he's had some solid games but really I don't know if I can call it for him over Jake. If BOTH are healthy then that's Mangini's decision and I trust as Head Coach he would make the best choice for the team, if Jake or Seneca plays that's on him. How I see it, pick six, two picks, regardless, it was a W.

That means Jake's won just as many games as Wallace has. Colt's won 2. Going by that at the very least, that makes Colt the starter of this team and really with JDH and Wallace's play I don't think that either of those QB's have shown anything that questions Colt's status on this team.

Flugs I can understand why you're so critical of JDH and I love it man. I don't know if Wallace should be starter but he has just as many little issues as Jake's faith in his arm that I don't know if one is truly better than the other. Start Jake again, until he loses a game outright, then question starting Wallace. If Colt gets healthy again, start Colt. That's my position.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

See I'm torn... Seneca effectively is only comfortable throwing from one side of his body. Yes, he's had some solid games but really I don't know if I can call it for him over Jake. If BOTH are healthy then that's Mangini's decision and I trust as Head Coach he would make the best choice for the team, if Jake or Seneca plays that's on him. How I see it, pick six, two picks, regardless, it was a W.

That means Jake's won just as many games as Wallace has. Colt's won 2. Going by that at the very least, that makes Colt the starter of this team and really with JDH and Wallace's play I don't think that either of those QB's have shown anything that questions Colt's status on this team.

Flugs I can understand why you're so critical of JDH and I love it man. I don't know if Wallace should be starter but he has just as many little issues as Jake's faith in his arm that I don't know if one is truly better than the other. Start Jake again, until he loses a game outright, then question starting Wallace. If Colt gets healthy again, start Colt. That's my position.

I hear you about Wallace having some issues of his own. Agreed. However, it's kind of hard for me to give Delhomme credit for winning yesterday's game when Carolina's penalties on Delhomme 3rd down incompletions kept 1 scoring drive alive. 1 of his INTs was a TD while the other was at the Cleveland 38 yard line approximately. If they make just 1 of those 2 FGs - our home fans are still booing as we speak.

I just don't like the carelessness I see from Jake on those sideline throws when this team is blue collaring their way down the field. Jake is pretty much Ronde Barber tackled at the Cleveland 3 yard line away from pic 6 #3 this year. I fully realize Wallace had a back breaker too against KC on a day they couldn't string together 1 offensive TD scoring drive. I just think Wallace has less panic attacks behind center.

After watching a healthy McCoy - it's hard to go back to either guy. The one thing I like about Delhomme is he's been a HUGE help to McCoy. I've seen him viewing overhead pictures with McCoy on the sidelines and showing him things from a veteran perspective. That's awesome. I couldn't hate the guy if I tried. That said, I LOVE my wife but I wouldn't want her QBing my favorite team in the NFL.

Anyway, here's the statistical comparison of the 3 Cleveland QBs:

Name	Comp	Att	Yds	Long	Avg	TD	INT	1st	Sack	Yds
Colt McCoy	81	127	975	47	7.68	3	3	48	15	-80
Seneca Wallace	63	100	693	65	6.93	4	2	34	6	-33
Jake Delhomme	57	95	569	49	5.99	1	6	26	3	-25

[Enigmatic Evil]

When you look at it like that... Jake's numbers tell a very depressing tale. If Wallace was healthy, I think I'd start him.

And, I think I'm wrong (I hope I am...) but I think half of Jakes INT's this season have LITERALLY been pick 6's... That's 18 points he's given the other team versus a measly 6 he's put on the board of his own accord. What do their respective QB ratings look like?

Ugh... the argument in FAVOR of JDH, no matter how you slice it, is a steeply uphill battle.