Questions after the Browns VICTORY.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by Greythan

Bullshit Masters. Utter bullshit.

You make it sound like the FG attempt was a no brainer. You're dead wrong. And... you know it.

There's 59 seconds left, no timeouts, a rookie QB who hasn't completed a meaningful pass all day and you have the best coffin corner punter in the league. Its at LEAST a coin toss as to whether to try a FG and risk giving them a short field to beat you or punt and pin them back.

You've got a hard on for the coaches. That's what it seems at least.

Grey, I think he was talking about earlier in the game.

[Greythan]

Completely false. The first drive of the 3rd QTR featured a pass which was promptly picked. CLE got lucky that Kasey missed a FG after that.

The second drive of the 3rd QTR was one run, then a pick 6.

The third drive the 3rd QTR started with 4 straight runs of 10, 9, 6, and 4 yards (Bell was the 6 and Stucky the 4). That was followed by 3 passes, 1 rush, then 2 more passes (why pass when you are running over the team and the D looked flat from the abuse they took in the first half. They were ready to fold). Then punt.

The fourth drive was much of the same. Gash the D for 3 straight runs, then go throw the ball twice that cause punt.

The 4th and 1 play was at CAR 25 yard line when only up by 1, in the 4th QTR with 11:40 on the clock. You never, ever go for it in that scenario. You take the 3pts, go up by 4, forcing the other team to get a TD to take the lead from you. Otherwise what happens is exactly what happened on Sunday, the other team goes down and takes the lead with a FG, after they have already swung the momentum with the two previous scores.

Other than correctly pointing out my overlooking of the first two "drives" (i.e., the INT's), I don't think you even attempted to comprehend my post.

I showed the run/pass mix and the fact that the team was moving the football. A holding penalty killed one drive (again, NOT a game plan failure) and a 4th and 1 killed another. The FG there wasn't a no brainer. I'm willing to bet that's at least a 2 out of 3 "go for the first" scenario if you look at NFL teams in similar circumstances. Again, I just get the sense you have your heels dug in on Daboll. (Who I'm not really fond of by the way, I just don't hate the guy.)

Oh, and I think my previous post may be way out of context as I think you might have been referring to the 4th and 1 decision and NOT the punt decision. If that's the case, my apologies.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Grey, I think he was talking about earlier in the game

How many go for it calls did we make?

3rd and 1
4th and 1

We made neither, correct?

[Riffer X]

Interesting point. For one, I was highly pissed that Haden just went down like the game was over with his pick. Does anybody think the Ravens just fall down there? Out of FG range????

Pretty sure Mik is talking about going for it on 4th and one without Vickers in the game. They tried to spread out the defense a little and create space with Moore lined up off the line according to Mangie. IMO, this team should be able to get a yard with Hillis and Vickers and a pretty decent oline, albeit not that stout on the left side against stout 4/3's. I agreed with going for it but not the call or execution. To me, go up by 8 if possible (or at least get closer) and a FG is not a gimme. I want my team to be agressive like that.

The other call on third and one was strictly on Jake, he chose to call it quick and didn't fool anybody.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

hey tried to spread out the defense a little and create space with Moore lined up off the line according to Mangie. IMO,

I want to puke on that explanation, to be honest.

Is he afraid to match his strength against thiers? That is the gawddamn thing that pisses me off about Mangini. He always wants to hide the 'tendencies" and out think himself, while also doing a poor job at self-evaluation.

RUN THE BALL !!!

Fuck this guy out thinks himself more than any coach I have ever known in Cleveland. Please Eric, STOP!

[Danamal]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Interesting point. For one, I was highly pissed that Haden just went down like the game was over with his pick. Does anybody think the Ravens just fall down there? Out of FG range????

Pretty sure Mik is talking about going for it on 4th and one without Vickers in the game. They tried to spread out the defense a little and create space with Moore lined up off the line according to Mangie. IMO, this team should be able to get a yard with Hillis and Vickers and a pretty decent oline, albeit not that stout on the left side against stout 4/3's. I agreed with going for it but not the call or execution. To me, go up by 8 if possible (or at least get closer) and a FG is not a gimme. I want my team to be agressive like that.

The other call on third and one was strictly on Jake, he chose to call it quick and didn't fool anybody.

Haden totally did the right thing,the Panthers were swarming and under two minutes you gotta believe your offense can run out the clock.

[Greythan]

They got way too cute with the motion play. Dieken said as much right after the play and he read my mind: "Bringing Royal in motion after already moving Vickers up to the left side line of scrimmage just broadcast the play." On fourth and one I don't like cute. I'd rather have a 2 tight end (balanced) and a straight "I" formation with Vickers/Hillis. This way the defense has no idea where we're going presnap. All that motion shit did was just tip off the defense.

That was on Daboll now that you guys have brought this point up. I'll concede the play call was poor but not the decision to go for it. I liked that.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Greythan

Bullshit Masters. Utter bullshit.

You make it sound like the FG attempt was a no brainer. You're dead wrong. And... you know it.

There's 59 seconds left, no timeouts, a rookie QB who hasn't completed a meaningful pass all day and you have the best coffin corner punter in the league. Its at LEAST a coin toss as to whether to try a FG and risk giving them a short field to beat you or punt and pin them back.

You've got a hard on for the coaches. That's what it seems at least.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the 59 seconds left, etc. I am talking CAR game last Sunday in the 4th QTR at CAR (and that is what EM was talking about and making an excuse about). CLE is at CAR 25 yard line, up by only 1, have 4th and 1, and went for it. You kick the FG and there is zero bullshit in that. That decision is a no brainer. You go up by 4pts and force CAR to get a TD to go ahead (which even if the did, means you only need another FG to tie at minim).

[Masters]

Originally Posted by Greythan

Other than correctly pointing out my overlooking of the first two "drives" (i.e., the INT's), I don't think you even attempted to comprehend my post.

I showed the run/pass mix and the fact that the team was moving the football. A holding penalty killed one drive (again, NOT a game plan failure) and a 4th and 1 killed another. The FG there wasn't a no brainer. I'm willing to bet that's at least a 2 out of 3 "go for the first" scenario if you look at NFL teams in similar circumstances. Again, I just get the sense you have your heels dug in on Daboll. (Who I'm not really fond of by the way, I just don't hate the guy.)

Oh, and I think my previous post may be way out of context as I think you might have been referring to the 4th and 1 decision and NOT the punt decision. If that's the case, my apologies.

I showed the run/pass mix as well. The team was moving the ball, on the ground. There was zero reason to pass on those first two drives you left out, which was my point.

FG at the opponents 25 yard line in the 4th QTR on 4th and 1 up by only 1pt is indeed a no brainer. You would lose that bet every day of the week. You ask any NFL coach they will tell you you take the points, go up by 4, and force the other team to get a TD to take the lead from you, when in that scenario (if we were talking 1st, 2nd, or 3rd QTR maybe not). The reason why you kick the FG is because of what ended up playing out after going for it. CLE didn't get it, CAR got the ball, went down the field, kicked a FG, and took the lead from CLE. You hear coaches all the time say "the card says you should do X in that situation". In this one the card tells you to take the points in that scenario. You play the percentages.

Noted on the last part, you can forget my reply to that one then