Eric Mangini wants to put a 'red light' on Peyton Hillis' fumbling

[BernietheKid]

Eric Mangini wants to put a 'red light' on Peyton Hillis' fumbling

Published: Monday, December 13, 2010, 9:47 PM Updated: Monday, December 13, 2010, 9:48 PM

Mary Kay Cabot, The Plain Dealer


John Kuntz / The Plain Dealer
The Browns have lost possession on five of Peyton Hillis' eight fumbles this season. Eric Mangini said Hillis needs to "heighten awareness of 'this is where the red light comes on and that's when the ball's at risk.'"

BEREA, Ohio -- Peyton Hillis, who fumbled three times in Buffalo, leads the NFL with eight fumbles -- something Eric Mangini wants corrected as soon as possible.

"This is a tough thing, because he does fight for so many extra yards and he makes so many yards after contact," said Mangini of Hillis, whose five lost fumbles are second-most in the league. "You don't want to take away what he does so well, but there's also that consciousness of as you're going for those yards, that's when you're most likely to get fumbles.

"We'll work on some things. It's something we've worked on consistently throughout the season. We'll continue to work on it and heighten awareness of 'this is where the red light comes on and that's when the ball's at risk.'"

Bills safety Jairus Byrd, who forced two of Hillis' fumbles, said Buffalo knew of Hillis' tendency to put the ball on the ground. He baited Hillis into a vintage hurdle, grabbing him by the legs and forcing the ball out just after the Browns got the ball back on a fumble recovery.

Will Mangini ask Hillis to halt the hurdle?

"He's done it a lot of times successfully," said Mangini. "I thought they did a nice job when they hit him. It's always hard with that running back to say 'This is okay to hurdle. This is not good to hurdle.'

"A lot of that stuff comes from instinct and feel, so you try to have him make good decisions without having him be so tight, so robotic that he loses what he's done so well through the course of the season. ... Just don't press it too much where you're at risk or the ball is at risk."

A strange trip indeed: While coaching the Jets, Mangini hired strength coach Sal Alosi, who was suspended for the rest of the season and fined $25,000 for tripping the Dolphins' Nolan Carroll as Carroll ran down the Jets sideline while attempting to cover a punt.

"I know Sal," said Mangini. "He really is a good person. He made a dumb mistake. I'm sure if he could take it back, he would take it back."

Mangini said he's never seen that happen before. "Um, no, not really. Maybe it has. I've seen a variation of that.

"Look, I don't want to make light of it, but there are times when someone's running down the sideline and you know they're going to score on it and you'd love to somehow be able to stop it," he said. "It's a sick feeling that comes over you. But you can't. You just can't."

Injury updates: Mangini said he thinks cornerback Sheldon Brown (shoulder) and linebacker David Bowens (head) should "both be okay for Sunday. Whether there's any missed time, maybe a little bit practice-wise, but that's my initial reaction."
Brown underwent an MRI on his right rotator cuff, but results were not released.

No arguing fumble call: Mangini didn't object to the officials awarding the ball to the Bills after Jake Delhomme's fourth-quarter fumble, even though no one had the ball when the whistle originally blew. It was first ruled an incompletion and then reversed after a Bills challenge.

"The Bills came up with it at the end of the day," he said. "The whistle blows, the whistle doesn't blow. You can't tell when it blew, when it didn't blow. The best thing is to not have it on the ground. When it's on the ground, fall on it."

Calls it as he sees it: Cornerback Joe Haden said Monday's message from Mangini was that the Bills wanted the game more. "He just didn't feel like we gave it all out, he didn't feel like we gave it all up," said Haden. "He just wants us to keep going, keep pushing, stay how we were the weeks prior."

Eric Mangini wants to put a 'red light' on Peyton Hillis' fumbling: Browns Insider | cleveland.com

[Fooleeze]

I don't want to diminish the impact of Hillis' fumbles, but let's look at this under a little perspective. Hillis has 'touched' the ball 295 times this year (238 carries and 57 receptions), and he has lost 5 fumbles. That's about a 1.69% rate of turnovers per touch.

Now compare that to Delhomme. . . who has thrown 149 passes. On those 149 passes he has turned the ball over 7 times. That's about a 4.69% rate of turnovers per pass attempted.

Now would you rather Delhomme threw the ball or Hillis carried it?

Seriously, though, Hillis' fumble rate is pretty high compared to other top RBs. . . but man, Delhomme needs to quit it!

(Did anyone realize that Adrian Peterson, who had such a fumbling issue in previous years, hasn't fumbled once this year?)

[Enigmatic Evil]

The main problem is that when Hillis fumbles it seems to damagingly affect the morale of the offense and the team as a whole. Buffalo's game showed it proof positive that when he had those multiple fumbles our offense looked completely conservative, inept and really had no gravitas at all.

Hillis is a pro and I expect he will work hard during this week and during the coming weeks and during the off season to have a better ball handling technique. One of his fumbles was completely avoidable when he lateraled right into that guy on the opening drive. That was a DUMB decision on Hillis' part and I am sure he beat himself up over it and second guessed himself for the rest of the game. When you're the runaway train kind of running back you need to put your head down and power through you can't be shadow stepping yourself like you're Jamal Lewis or something.

Keep in mind as well that this is really Hillis' first season as a #1 back. He never got a fair shake in Denver and it was probably never saw as much of a problem. You make a great point about Adrian Peterson. He's proof positive that coaching can reverse things like this. It's nice to see Hillis jump over a guy but he's not superman and he doesn't need to be constantly jumping over people. Someone brought it up last week before the buffalo game in regards to being nervous about Hillis getting popped when he tries something like that. Well we more or less saw what can happen when he makes a mistake with going vertical.

[Inspecta]

I don't want to be the one to toot my own horn, but I talked about this very thing in my article on Hillis that I posted last week. I love watching him hurdle guys, but in reality, it's just not smart football to do that move over and over again, cause then you get what happened on Sunday when you have a defender that's not only anticipating it, but actively baiting him to do it. Luckily the only thing that happened was he lost a fumble, however when you leave your feet in the field of play you're just asking for bad shit to happen.

[Sez.EJ]

Hurdling near the sideline when your going vs 1-2 guys makes sense..but this was in the middle of the field with everyone around.. I trust Hillis will adjust without destroying his style. It was also wet and raining in Buffalo ..but that's no excuse..the buffalo backs did not fumble once.

[plow]

Hillis is our entire offense, he has so many touches that he's bound to fumble. I hope everyone isn't going to get all down on him. If we didn't have hillis I think we would win a total of 2 games MAYBE. His good far outweighs his fumbles. Here's hoping he can correct it but quite frankly he's amazing even with the fumbles.

[YtownBacker]

Cleveland doesn't have a quick strike offense, so they need long drives to score. A turnover kills the Browns. Hillis needs work on securing the ball. Every team now knows to go for the ball when he carries it. He does need to protect it better and that is on him. I know he has done a lot for this team but you can't continue to turn the ball over and ruin a scoring drive which aren't in abundance with this offense.

Hillis's has some factors to overcome. He has small fat hands, short arms and very large biceps. The ball seems to stick out when he carries it on one arm. He needs to work on ball position in his arm and covering it up with his off arm.

I hate to see the guy ruin a career year. but he has a stigma as a fumbler and that is hard to get rid of.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Byrd told Dennis Manoloff that he thinks Hillis is unable to secure the ball due to his arms being too muscular. That was a theory I went with as well during the game. Dude needs to stop working out the guns.

[Masters]

Yeah, a while ago on Mike & Mike, when Golic was fawning over Hillis's guns, he talked about those being an issue for all security.

[Riffer X]

It's not a rocket science here, he is not wrapping the ball up when in a pile. Look at the one fumble when he held it out in his right arm and the guy just knocked it out as Hillis stretched forward in a slew of bodies. Also, he can hurdle all he wants too, it is a great move. Just because he hurdles doesn't mean he can't keep the ball tucked. The bottom line with Hillis is he is not tucking the ball away upon contact, or after initial contact is releasing it from being tucked originally to untucked again as he reaches for more yards. Hoard used to do this but way worse.

The hurdle is a great move. I keep hearing people everywhere bitch about it but the only way these DB's can get him down is to go for his knees. He knows this and they know it, but now it is a guessing game for both. I have no doubt Hillis wants to eventually hurdle the last line of defense safety and take it to the house, it would make the highlight reels for years, but he still has to be smart when he does it. He should see a guy commit first for his knees, not just assume it. Easier said then done, but you can't just try to hurdle a guy standing up.

Tiki Barber had the worst fumbling problem I have ever seen and fixed it immediately when he changed the way he held the ball by holding it to his chest almost vertical to the ground. Looked goofy but fixed the issue almost 100%. Hillis may need to do something like this. The point of the whole thing is it keeps a guy cognizant of what he is doing at all times by concentrating on it. He just needs something to keep him aware of how he is holding the ball at all times. You can still stretch for more yards and all that while securing the ball.

[Masters]

Riffer, I agree with most of what you said. Hillis does need to wrap up more. But I have also seen him wrap up the ball and it still get knocked loose. That part is where his giant guns come into play. They actually keep more opportunity for it to squirt out and limit his wrap up ability. There are certainly techniques he can learn and use to better secure the ball, which the Tiki comment is a spot on example of.

As to the hurdling, I don't mind it, when done in the right moment. It's a great weapon for him. But with Sunday as the example, it was a poor choice. He got baited into it by a guy he could have just run over. Hillis doesn't need to be hurdling DBs, when he can flat out truck them. They can go for his legs all they want. Most of the guys are the size of his legs. I am far more worried about him getting seriously hurt by leaving his feet than hanging on to the ball by doing it. You leave your feet like Hillis does, and sooner or later he's gonna come straight down on his head.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Masters

Riffer, I agree with most of what you said. Hillis does need to wrap up more. But I have also seen him wrap up the ball and it still get knocked loose. That part is where his giant guns come into play. They actually keep more opportunity for it to squirt out and limit his wrap up ability. There are certainly techniques he can learn and use to better secure the ball, which the Tiki comment is a spot on example of.

As to the hurdling, I don't mind it, when done in the right moment. It's a great weapon for him. But with Sunday as the example, it was a poor choice. He got baited into it by a guy he could have just run over. Hillis doesn't need to be hurdling DBs, when he can flat out truck them. They can go for his legs all they want. Most of the guys are the size of his legs. I am far more worried about him getting seriously hurt by leaving his feet than hanging on to the ball by doing it. You leave your feet like Hillis does, and sooner or later he's gonna come straight down on his head.

Big guns........yes I agree that's part of the problem. A guy fighting as hard as him for extra yards is also a cause (maybe I can live with that part) but you have to realize where you are in the game and on the field and sometimes live to paly another play.

For me a bigger factor then his guns, which isn't abnormal for guys in the NFL, is his short arms. Doesn't seem like the ball fits comfortably in there. The ball seems exposed.

The answer may be that he needs to wrap the ball up with two hands when he's in a pile in the middle. Never seen a guy with the ball wrapped up while he was up in the air jumping over someone. He also has a habit of putting an arm on the ground to brace his fall. That kind of stuff can be cleaned up.