Gruden or Mangini

[Masters]

I'd take showing respect publicly with a grain of salt. That just shows the guys are professional. Doesn't mean the worked well together behind closed doors.

With the Jets both EM and Favre subtly hung each other out to dry to the press after that one season, with both playing the Favre injury card as an excuse.

While obviously some rumor in this tidbit, it was reported about Favre during and after the Jets year.

"He kept things pretty well in check last year with the Jets, but that might have had more to do with the fact he was injured late in the season. But he did admit privately that he didn't always enjoy working under Eric Mangini and offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer, in part because the two didn't completely tear up the offense and go with Favre's system from Green Bay."

Is the Brett Favre-Brad Childress relationship fracturing?

[nickers]

Originally Posted by hiwaygal

Mostly, I don't want to change for change's sake. Or because we THINK someone else is going to do so much better. After so many years and years of changes and craziness, it would be nice to see what happens if the only things that change are the players and the skill sets we have in our tool box ('cause that's always gonna change)

I think too many get this Idea that if we change coaches were blowing the team up wich certainly isnt the case..What in fact is the case that the FO stays intact and maybe wants to get Coaching that goes inline with the way they like to do things from an offensive and defensive standpoint...Im just of the opinion after seeing 5 years of Mangini work in two different Organization...Like shottenheimer...your only gonna get so far and bottom out...Im not sayingh I hate Mangini...Im just saying and have stated he sucks as a gameday coach talent...or no talent...its fair to say he had more talent with the Jets than hes had with the browns. And something tells Me MH isnt drinking the Kool-Aid much longer.

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by Masters

I'd take showing respect publicly with a grain of salt.

Of course you have to take it that way. Neither Favre or Mangini are going to publicly disclose how they REALLY feel about one another. Much the same way that I don't tell some of my colleagues that they drive me insane.

Again, I'm not sure that part matters. I'm only discussing the point that "Mangini can't handle talent" or the insinuation that Mangini feels egos/talent aresome kind of threat to him.

Originally Posted by nickers

I think too many get this Idea that if we change coaches were blowing the team up wich certainly isnt the case..What in fact is the case that the FO stays intact and maybe wants to get Coaching that goes inline with the way they like to do things from an offensive and defensive standpoint...Im just of the opinion after seeing 5 years of Mangini work in two different Organization...Like shottenheimer...your only gonna get so far and bottom out...Im not sayingh I hate Mangini...Im just saying and have stated he sucks as a gameday coach talent...or no talent...its fair to say he had more talent with the Jets than hes had with the browns. And something tells Me MH isnt drinking the Kool-Aid much longer.

I believe the Kool-Aid is what the pro-fire Mangini crowd is saying. From what I can see there are a lot more people calling for Mangini to be fired than there are people saying he should stay. So I agree with you...MH ain't necessarily drinkin' any Kool-Aid!

Didn't MH and TH have a conversation with Mangini before Heckertt was hired? And again (or was it the same meeting?) when MH was making the decision to keep or fire Mangini after last season?

Isn't it even remotely possible that they HAVE coaching that goes in line with their way of working...with a little twist worked in?

I LOVE the fact that there is representation from different coaching trees on our staff. THIS is what I wanted for building a new legacy that belongs solely to the Cleveland Browns.

Maybe I'm just stubborn and don't want to see that dream die too.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by hiwaygal

After so many years and years of changes and craziness, it would be nice to see what happens if the only things that change are the players and the skill sets we have in our tool box ('cause that's always gonna change)

Originally Posted by hiwaygal

But I'm not sure where the "problem" is. Is it coaching? Is it injuries? Is it that these guys ARE playing to their level and we just expect too much? Is it inexperience?

Anyone ever told you that you're too smart to be a female football fan? You're confusing a lot of guys here.

I want to expect too much. I want to expect more. After NE and NO I thought the coaches and players got it, that they had the scheme to develop. We could score some points and take the ball away. I am not down on the staff or the players - I am down on both.

We have improved as a team, and you'd be stupid not to notice this improvement. But that next step of winning consistently, that starts with the coaches. All the talk Mangini said about learning how to win consistently starts and ends with him.

Buffalo and Cincinnati were games he is building this team to win: COLD WEATHER and the RUN GAME.

Players, talent, injuries. All excuses. Those losses were weak losses. Not a team that has been developed to play in cold weather and run the ball/stop the run. If your defense is slow but stout, it better stop the run. In cold weather.

You either are building what you said you're building, or you fall short.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Masters

While obviously some rumor in this tidbit, it was reported about Favre during and after the Jets year.

Meh. As soon as he left Green Bay, in fact before he left, he waffled back and forth about his relationships with coaches. Or there were rumors that he did. So in fact he has had "issues" since his last season or 2 in GB. Not an indictment on Mangini, IMO.

[Masters]

Not really meant as an indictment of EM or Brian Shotty. Just there to show that just because they worked together and showed respect, publicly for each other, that it didn't mean behind the scenes it had it's issues.

Frankly, I don't know if EM has trouble managing guys with an ego or not. Like any coach who isn't a "players coach" you hear a lot of mixed things from former players. Talented and untalented, those with egos and those w/o. I sooner question whether EM (or his staff) knows how to use whatever talent they have.

[hiwaygal]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Anyone ever told you that you're too smart to be a female football fan? You're confusing a lot of guys here.

It's more likely that I'm just dumber than everyone else about football. Remember, I've never actually played the game, don't know half of the positions on any given roster (or what they do), and am generally good at bullshit and making things up!!!!

[Vegasdogg]

So you mean you're an Engineer?

[hiwaygal]

HEY!!!!





lol

[Greythan]

Give me a break. There isn't a player in the NFL without a GIGANTIC ego. Its part and parcel with the job. Now, guys with me-first, diva attitudes? That might be a different story.

[Masters]

I think the me first diva attitude guys are who most are referring to as "ego" guys. I agree with you Greythan, that every player in the NFL has a big ego. Just about ever person has an ego, and people good at their job have a big one (part of what makes them good/successful).

[Jax Dawg]

EM must not have hated Favre that much because he named one of his sons after Brett.