Front Office to set an example?

[Vegasdogg]

John, the structure is the structure and the president has the overall authority to hire and fire the GM/HC. Then again Randy is the final trigger puller so if I were him I'd find a guy who supports both Heckert and Holmgren and throw your chips in with the guy you recruited to change the organization. Holmgren.

Riffer, any half-competent HC would "drastically improve" this club after the Policy/Palmer - Butch Davis - Savage/Crenell debacles. None of those idiots drafted anyone that is even remotely a difference maker. Mangini didn't fare much better. But to say he improved the team? Sure he did, but consider who he followed.

Holmgren takes two franchises to a Super Bowl with teams just like the Browns. Pitiful recent histories and shoddy management. I'm supposed to believe that he can't do a much better job coaching this team than Mangini just because Eric was better than the 3 previous idiots? I'm thankful for Eric and like his approach to discipline, but I don't think his style goes beyond that. Too many head games from what I've read.

With Holmgren as HC you obviously have to buy into the TH/MH marriage and hire the President accordingly.

Chances are it's a pipe dream and MH hires a coach and stays President. I'm 50/50 on him actually stepping into HC. But I'm almost 100% confident that Eric's last game is Sunday. Instilling discipline and lopping off diva's is great. But I refuse to believe every step backward we took in 2010 was due to injuries and lack of talent.

He just didn't develop our talent enough. And for all the talk about a tough schedule he sure as shit didn't get this team ready against the weakest part.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

John, the structure is the structure and the president has the overall authority to hire and fire the GM/HC. Then again Randy is the final trigger puller so if I were him I'd find a guy who supports both Heckert and Holmgren and throw your chips in with the guy you recruited to change the organization. Holmgren.

Riffer, any half-competent HC would "drastically improve" this club after the Policy/Palmer - Butch Davis - Savage/Crenell debacles. None of those idiots drafted anyone that is even remotely a difference maker. Mangini didn't fare much better. But to say he improved the team? Sure he did, but consider who he followed.

Holmgren takes two franchises to a Super Bowl with teams just like the Browns. Pitiful recent histories and shoddy management. I'm supposed to believe that he can't do a much better job coaching this team than Mangini just because Eric was better than the 3 previous idiots? I'm thankful for Eric and like his approach to discipline, but I don't think his style goes beyond that. Too many head games from what I've read.

With Holmgren as HC you obviously have to buy into the TH/MH marriage and hire the President accordingly.

Chances are it's a pipe dream and MH hires a coach and stays President. I'm 50/50 on him actually stepping into HC. But I'm almost 100% confident that Eric's last game is Sunday. Instilling discipline and lopping off diva's is great. But I refuse to believe every step backward we took in 2010 was due to injuries and lack of talent.

He just didn't develop our talent enough. And for all the talk about a tough schedule he sure as shit didn't get this team ready against the weakest part.

So in your imaginary scenario, is this like a REAL NFL hirearchy? would the President have the ability to fire Holmgren? Or would only Lerner have the abilitly to do that? How about the GM? would he have the right to fire the HC? (holmgren?) or only Lerner.

If your answer to ANY of those questions is that only Lerner could fire Holmgren the HC, then it's a recipe for disaster that we already had.
We had Collins as Pres, Savage as GM, and Crennel as HC. And Collins tried to make a change and got run out of town by the otehr two, then the other two didn't work together for the rest of their tenure, and I know I know, "but Holmgren and Heckert have the same philosophy and get along well...." Bull shit. Heckert won't like his power being even slightly usupred by the guy below him, and Holmgren won't give up total control just to be able to stand on the sidelines and call himself coach.

I'd predict if Holmgren makes himself HC, that Heckert finds away to get out of his contract and move to another team. Heckert will want a say in who the next coach is if Mangini is fired.

[Greythan]

I don't know if Heckert leaves, but it sure goes to 50/50 in all likelihood.

Its a big bet if Holmgren steps in as coach. Its worked before where the coach has been top dog, but its also blown up as you've mentioned. It also didn't work for Holmgren in his last stint.

[DawgFan]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

So in your imaginary scenario, is this like a REAL NFL hirearchy? would the President have the ability to fire Holmgren? Or would only Lerner have the abilitly to do that? How about the GM? would he have the right to fire the HC? (holmgren?) or only Lerner.

If your answer to ANY of those questions is that only Lerner could fire Holmgren the HC, then it's a recipe for disaster that we already had.
We had Collins as Pres, Savage as GM, and Crennel as HC. And Collins tried to make a change and got run out of town by the otehr two, then the other two didn't work together for the rest of their tenure, and I know I know, "but Holmgren and Heckert have the same philosophy and get along well...." Bull shit. Heckert won't like his power being even slightly usupred by the guy below him, and Holmgren won't give up total control just to be able to stand on the sidelines and call himself coach.

I'd predict if Holmgren makes himself HC, that Heckert finds away to get out of his contract and move to another team. Heckert will want a say in who the next coach is if Mangini is fired.

BINGO!!!

[kydawgfan]

Originally Posted by dogpaddle

I'm hoping that none of their timings are based on a need to confirm or negate speculation.

Their goal should be setting this team up to win, and everything else should be secondary.

I 100% agree, the objective has to be improving the team first and not how many coaching families could be uprooted and most certainly not what the media thinks about a timeline..

[PlaygroundLegend]

Just want to chime in.....

If the Eagles win the Superbowl, Heckert deserves a ring

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

John, the structure is the structure and the president has the overall authority to hire and fire the GM/HC. Then again Randy is the final trigger puller so if I were him I'd find a guy who supports both Heckert and Holmgren and throw your chips in with the guy you recruited to change the organization. Holmgren.

Riffer, any half-competent HC would "drastically improve" this club after the Policy/Palmer - Butch Davis - Savage/Crenell debacles. None of those idiots drafted anyone that is even remotely a difference maker. Mangini didn't fare much better. But to say he improved the team? Sure he did, but consider who he followed.

Holmgren takes two franchises to a Super Bowl with teams just like the Browns. Pitiful recent histories and shoddy management. I'm supposed to believe that he can't do a much better job coaching this team than Mangini just because Eric was better than the 3 previous idiots? I'm thankful for Eric and like his approach to discipline, but I don't think his style goes beyond that. Too many head games from what I've read.

With Holmgren as HC you obviously have to buy into the TH/MH marriage and hire the President accordingly.

Chances are it's a pipe dream and MH hires a coach and stays President. I'm 50/50 on him actually stepping into HC. But I'm almost 100% confident that Eric's last game is Sunday. Instilling discipline and lopping off diva's is great. But I refuse to believe every step backward we took in 2010 was due to injuries and lack of talent.

He just didn't develop our talent enough. And for all the talk about a tough schedule he sure as shit didn't get this team ready against the weakest part.

Sorry my friend, I can't buy into any of that. First, Lerner gave Holmgren 100% authority to run the organization. Lerner doesn't want to make any football decisions for the Browns. He realizes he isn't qualified and doesn't even go to the owners meetings. He sends Holmgren.

No way on this earth does Holmgren step down as president making $9 million a year and become coach which would mean he would have to let Heckert go. Heckert has authority over the final 53 man roster. How do you think that would work out.

Way would a guy want to disrupt a great FO that he put together when he can bring in anybody he wants to do the same thing, running the same system, he would as coach. If Holmgren wanted to be coach he would have taken the job last year and kept the GM duties also.

The man fucks with the media and douches like Mary Kay print that he hasn't ruled out coming back to coach. He must be laughing his ass off when he reads some of that shit. I haven't ruled out going back to work some day but I sure don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.

Holmgren seems satisfied to be the man and shape the organization. In no way can I see him coming back down to the field.

just sayin............................

[Enigmatic Evil]

So in your imaginary scenario, is this like a REAL NFL hirearchy? would the President have the ability to fire Holmgren? Or would only Lerner have the abilitly to do that? How about the GM? would he have the right to fire the HC? (holmgren?) or only Lerner.

Just a note... Isn't Holmgren the president? How is he going to fire himself. I assume that order would have to come right from Lerner. Heckert's in charge of the roster. Holmgren's already explained this. He has given Mangini the players HE wanted. These men are working TOGETHER to build a team with a common goal in mind of winning. If a new HC was brought in, we would probably start bringing in players that were more suited to that particular coaches tendencies and strengths and tactics and so forth.

I can't see a superior HC really making that big of a difference with the ball club until we have more depth at all of the major positions. Injuries have ripped this team to shreds this season and it's really taking its toll. As a result, so is Mangini's reputation. Our roster has some bright spots but we still have so much room to improve before we could be considered a consistent winner let alone a contender in what's pretty much the most difficult division in football.

I do not see Holmgren returning to coach, 0% chance of that happening and wishful thinking on the behalf of anyone that believes it could happen. Holmgren would bring in a coach who would fit the system like he brought in like minded people like Heckert to surround himself with. He kept Mangini for this season, and may keep him for next season because he knows this team and he's done a good job helping this team grow. A lot of people like to ignore that. Would you all prefer Butch Davis or Crennel were still coaching this team? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I still will be very surprised if Mangini is fired at the end of the season. Even if we lose to Pittsburgh on Sunday. I was a huge detractor of Mangini when I joined this board, he's turned me around this season. Any one of you who wants to call me on this can, and I will gladly secede my opinion and admit defeat in that regard if I am wrong.