Hmmm...some of us are not the only ones???

[Riffer X]

Deposed Mangini trumpets Browns' progress, has few regrets - NFL - CBSSports.com Football

In another place, at another time, Eric Mangini would not have been fired. So he didn't win many games this season with the Cleveland Browns. Neither did Gary Kubiak in Houston. But Kubiak is back and Mangini is not because the Houston Texans have the patience that Cleveland does not.
That is not a knock on the Browns. It's an observation.

Jake Delhomme's turnover tendencies didn't help settle Eric Mangini's QB problem in Cleveland. (Getty Images)

It's also the reason Mangini was home Tuesday, taking his boys to school, instead of studying the Browns' depth chart and wondering how and where to improve it. Mangini lost over twice as many games as he won in his two seasons with the Browns, and the team's management decided enough was enough. "I really believe this was a different situation than what I went through in New York [with the Jets]," he said Tuesday morning, "because there it was all about trying to figure out who you are and how well you can do with your next chance. But in two years here my growth professionally and personally has been tremendous. I think I feel a lot more comfortable in my own skin, and that was huge for me.
"What I know now is that you don't microwave success. You build something to last, and that takes a lot of hard work, discipline and patience. Pittsburgh is a great example of that, and it's reflected by its record."
Mangini did what he was supposed to do, which was to lay a foundation for the future and return the Browns to respectability. I don't care that they were 5-11 this season. I care that he took a team that didn't have an abundance of talent but did have an abundance of injuries, as well as the NFL's toughest schedule, and made it a factor.
The Browns were the last team to beat New England. They clobbered defending Super Bowl champion New Orleans in New Orleans. They beat defending AFC North champion Cincinnati, ending a streak of eight straight division wins. They should have beaten Tampa Bay and the New York Jets. They didn't but they also didn't have the players or the talent those clubs did, with Mangini forced to play half the season with his third-string quarterback, rookie Colt McCoy, and without defensive captains Scott Fujita and Robaire Smith.
So injuries happen. They happened in all the wrong places for Cleveland, and they doomed the head coach. Look, I don't know that Mangini would've made it had he beaten Buffalo and Cincinnati or not gotten hammered by Pittsburgh at home in the season finale. But I do know that he didn't have a chance once he couldn't steer clear of those defeats.
That's supposed to be OK because that's life in the NFL. But it shouldn't be OK for Mangini because he did what he was supposed to do -- put the Cleveland Browns back on the map. Yes, you would have liked him to win more, but he made the Browns something they were not, which was relevant -- and if you don't believe me, ask the Patriots.



"When I look back at what we accomplished, I think we dramatically changed the culture of the building and the organization. Football became relevant again in Cleveland. People were passionate about the team again, and I think that came from the passion of the players. The city felt it, and was excited about it.
"I'm proud of that, and I'm proud of the guys we had there. They're the types of players that you can build with because there are mentors now in the locker room. Because of that I think the Cleveland Browns have a chance to build something special."
They do, and it would have been nice to see Mangini have that chance to build it with them. But Jerry Glanville was right when he said the NFL stands for Not For Long. Josh McDaniels lasted a year-and-a-half in Denver. Mike Singletary was around for two-plus seasons in San Francisco. Brad Childress was fired a year after signing a contract extension. Tony Sparano may be gone after three years in Miami, and Tom Cable's future is in doubt after winning every game within the AFC West.
Mangini should've known this season wasn't going to be easy. It never is when the team's president and GM didn't hire you. But Mangini also knew what he had to do -- make a bulletproof case for himself -- and he failed, with consecutive losses to Buffalo and Cincinnati almost certainly cementing his fate.
So he was fired and now considers life after Cleveland. Already, he said, he has been contacted by college and pro teams looking to hire him, but he's in no hurry to make the next move -- and he shouldn't be. Instead of the first opportunity, he must look for the right one. In the end, Cleveland was not that place. The Browns are on the clock, and team president Mike Holmgren and Mangini come from completely different backgrounds, so it's no surprise their one-year marriage didn't last.
It's to Holmgren's credit that he stuck with his head coach after Mangini's first season, but I don't know many within the NFL who thought it could survive beyond this season. Nevertheless, Mangini declined to fault Holmgren for his dismissal. He knew the Browns had to make something dramatic happen, and they didn't. And when the team collapsed down the stretch it was over. Holmgren didn't have to say it; those empty seats in the second half of Sunday's loss said it for him.
"I'm not sure what I would've done differently," Mangini said. "I think at that moment we made the right decisions. I don't know if I had the chance that I would've done one thing differently. I know I wish we could've finished games better. I'm not sure what exactly broke down, and I would've studied that in the offseason -- trying to determine what was the difference in the first half and the second half."
What could have been the difference for Cleveland this season was its quarterback, and I say "could have been" because I don't know if the Browns found themselves a future starter or not. Once I thought I did. But, the Colt McCoy I watched in his first five starts was different from the quarterback I saw finish the season -- and the numbers reflect it.
Of course, that was an issue with the Browns all year, and it started with Jake Delhomme. He was supposed to solidify a position so unstable that in 2009 Mangini won five games with his quarterbacks completing a total of 33 passes in those victories. So the Browns imported Delhomme, and he responded by committing a raft of errors -- including two interceptions in the season-opening loss to Tampa Bay, a game where the Browns blew a 14-3 lead.


"[The Browns] need more playmakers on offense," said Mangini. "Ben Watson had 68 catches, and that was a huge upgrade for us. Peyton Hillis did a really good job, but there was no back behind him, and once he was hurt [he broke two ribs in a Dec. 26 loss to Baltimore] it really slowed him down."
Yet despite all that, the Browns hung tough for most of the year. They were one of the league's toughest outs, and don't ask me how Mangini or his coaches managed with the roster they had. But they did.
"I know we were on the right path," Mangini said, "and I think the city was disappointed we didn't win more -- as we were. But I'm proud of the way the guys played and how hard they played, and that's the first step. There's not a sense of loss or regret because I couldn't be more proud of the guys and the changes we made, and that's the first step in creating something special. If that's going to be my legacy here then I look at it positively."

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Deposed Mangini trumpets Browns' progress, has few regrets - NFL - CBSSports.com Football

In another place, at another time, Eric Mangini would not have been fired. So he didn't win many games this season with the Cleveland Browns. Neither did Gary Kubiak in Houston. But Kubiak is back and Mangini is not because the Houston Texans have the patience that Cleveland does not.
That is not a knock on the Browns. It's an observation.

It's also the reason Mangini was home Tuesday, taking his boys to school, instead of studying the Browns' depth chart and wondering how and where to improve it. Mangini lost over twice as many games as he won in his two seasons with the Browns, and the team's management decided enough was enough. "I really believe this was a different situation than what I went through in New York [with the Jets]," he said Tuesday morning, "because there it was all about trying to figure out who you are and how well you can do with your next chance. But in two years here my growth professionally and personally has been tremendous. I think I feel a lot more comfortable in my own skin, and that was huge for me.
"What I know now is that you don't microwave success. You build something to last, and that takes a lot of hard work, discipline and patience. Pittsburgh is a great example of that, and it's reflected by its record."
Mangini did what he was supposed to do, which was to lay a foundation for the future and return the Browns to respectability. I don't care that they were 5-11 this season. I care that he took a team that didn't have an abundance of talent but did have an abundance of injuries, as well as the NFL's toughest schedule, and made it a factor.
The Browns were the last team to beat New England. They clobbered defending Super Bowl champion New Orleans in New Orleans. They beat defending AFC North champion Cincinnati, ending a streak of eight straight division wins. They should have beaten Tampa Bay and the New York Jets. They didn't but they also didn't have the players or the talent those clubs did, with Mangini forced to play half the season with his third-string quarterback, rookie Colt McCoy, and without defensive captains Scott Fujita and Robaire Smith.
So injuries happen. They happened in all the wrong places for Cleveland, and they doomed the head coach. Look, I don't know that Mangini would've made it had he beaten Buffalo and Cincinnati or not gotten hammered by Pittsburgh at home in the season finale. But I do know that he didn't have a chance once he couldn't steer clear of those defeats.
That's supposed to be OK because that's life in the NFL. But it shouldn't be OK for Mangini because he did what he was supposed to do -- put the Cleveland Browns back on the map. Yes, you would have liked him to win more, but he made the Browns something they were not, which was relevant -- and if you don't believe me, ask the Patriots.



"When I look back at what we accomplished, I think we dramatically changed the culture of the building and the organization. Football became relevant again in Cleveland. People were passionate about the team again, and I think that came from the passion of the players. The city felt it, and was excited about it.
"I'm proud of that, and I'm proud of the guys we had there. They're the types of players that you can build with because there are mentors now in the locker room. Because of that I think the Cleveland Browns have a chance to build something special."
They do, and it would have been nice to see Mangini have that chance to build it with them. But Jerry Glanville was right when he said the NFL stands for Not For Long. Josh McDaniels lasted a year-and-a-half in Denver. Mike Singletary was around for two-plus seasons in San Francisco. Brad Childress was fired a year after signing a contract extension. Tony Sparano may be gone after three years in Miami, and Tom Cable's future is in doubt after winning every game within the AFC West.
Mangini should've known this season wasn't going to be easy. It never is when the team's president and GM didn't hire you. But Mangini also knew what he had to do -- make a bulletproof case for himself -- and he failed, with consecutive losses to Buffalo and Cincinnati almost certainly cementing his fate.
So he was fired and now considers life after Cleveland. Already, he said, he has been contacted by college and pro teams looking to hire him, but he's in no hurry to make the next move -- and he shouldn't be. Instead of the first opportunity, he must look for the right one. In the end, Cleveland was not that place. The Browns are on the clock, and team president Mike Holmgren and Mangini come from completely different backgrounds, so it's no surprise their one-year marriage didn't last.
It's to Holmgren's credit that he stuck with his head coach after Mangini's first season, but I don't know many within the NFL who thought it could survive beyond this season. Nevertheless, Mangini declined to fault Holmgren for his dismissal. He knew the Browns had to make something dramatic happen, and they didn't. And when the team collapsed down the stretch it was over. Holmgren didn't have to say it; those empty seats in the second half of Sunday's loss said it for him.
"I'm not sure what I would've done differently," Mangini said. "I think at that moment we made the right decisions. I don't know if I had the chance that I would've done one thing differently. I know I wish we could've finished games better. I'm not sure what exactly broke down, and I would've studied that in the offseason -- trying to determine what was the difference in the first half and the second half."
What could have been the difference for Cleveland this season was its quarterback, and I say "could have been" because I don't know if the Browns found themselves a future starter or not. Once I thought I did. But, the Colt McCoy I watched in his first five starts was different from the quarterback I saw finish the season -- and the numbers reflect it.
Of course, that was an issue with the Browns all year, and it started with Jake Delhomme. He was supposed to solidify a position so unstable that in 2009 Mangini won five games with his quarterbacks completing a total of 33 passes in those victories. So the Browns imported Delhomme, and he responded by committing a raft of errors -- including two interceptions in the season-opening loss to Tampa Bay, a game where the Browns blew a 14-3 lead.


"[The Browns] need more playmakers on offense," said Mangini. "Ben Watson had 68 catches, and that was a huge upgrade for us. Peyton Hillis did a really good job, but there was no back behind him, and once he was hurt [he broke two ribs in a Dec. 26 loss to Baltimore] it really slowed him down."
Yet despite all that, the Browns hung tough for most of the year. They were one of the league's toughest outs, and don't ask me how Mangini or his coaches managed with the roster they had. But they did.
"I know we were on the right path," Mangini said, "and I think the city was disappointed we didn't win more -- as we were. But I'm proud of the way the guys played and how hard they played, and that's the first step. There's not a sense of loss or regret because I couldn't be more proud of the guys and the changes we made, and that's the first step in creating something special. If that's going to be my legacy here then I look at it positively."

I didn't have to quote the article, but I wanted to. People should read it twice maybe three times.

We just lost a class act and a good coach, and he helped build a foundation that the next "pizzaazzy" guy can come mess up.

[YtownBacker]

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. But, it is a business and sometimes the voice of the masses has to be heard.

Not saying that's always right.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. But, it is a business and sometimes the voice of the masses has to be heard.

Not saying that's always right.

Eh I'm not even one to believe Holmgren was responding to fan pressure ect.

I think he wants to work with someone who is specifically his own guy.

This season worked out in a way that led to Mangini's firing. That just doesn't mean it was the best move. It was the necessary move.

[Riffer X]

It worked out pretty damn good for Walrus. He had a lame duck guy build his foundation and then that guy lost enough down the stretch to make it warranted.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

It worked out pretty damn good for Walrus. He had a lame duck guy build his foundation and then that guy lost enough down the stretch to make it warranted.

Exactly, now it's on Holmgren to pick the right next guy who needs to win soon.

[Vegasdogg]

I have always been a big fan of Eric's. He took unnecessary and completely childish bullshit from our idiotic press right from the get go. Then I would listen to his pressers (and read them) and wonder WTF are these people talking about? Complete bullshit and a hatchet job by the so-called press/media. And some people wonder why I hate the media.

Class act and I think a really good guy, good person, always came across as a guy who wanted to see all players do well -- even Braylon and Winslow. He just didn't come across to me as a guy that deserved any of this animosity and childish slanders that 95% of the time NEVER proved to be true. Never.

If I were Eric I probably wouldn't have done much different either. I don't think his strong points are putting the best 22 on the field, nor do I think his job was made easier by giving him a new set of QB's to teach his offensive philosophy to, but then again his offensive philosophy left a lot to be desired.

In the end his losses to seemingly lesser teams did him in. His teams could not finish last season either until the last 4 games. But it never seemed that he got this team 'on track.' While it is to be commended that he actually got all the players moving in one direction and with one purpose, the results just did not materialize as proof of those efforts.

Holmgren got to see it all behind the scenes at practice during every week - how they installed the offense/defense, how they game planned for specific opponents, how they handled 3rd downs and 2 minutes, how they developed game plans - and might have determined that what happened on game day was a direct result of some shortcomings during the week.

I do know that Mike is front and center now and he has plenty of help determining who is the best fit for he and Tom Heckert. We would be in terrible shape had we kept Mangini and hacked Tom Heckert, but that didn't happen. We kept the correct guy and now we have to fill in the head coach and coordinators/position coaches, which could be a good thing. It could have been more than just Eric, it could very well be his choices for these positions that also left Mike scratching his head.

Anyway, I like Eric Mangini and think he seems to be a really good human being. I want to see him coaching again for sure.

[golfer704u]

I actually think Holmgren would have been just as happy to see Mangini suceed this year.

But when the wins didn't come, Holmgren will now work with Heckert to have a HC and group of coordinators of thier choosing, which they didn't have with Mangini.

I have to have confidence in Holmgren and Heckert because I am a Browns fan and will support whoever they choose, but some of the names frankly make me wonder how they would be better at HC than Mangini was. Offense for sure, but not HC.

[lemosley01]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

Eh I'm not even one to believe Holmgren was responding to fan pressure ect.

I think he wants to work with someone who is specifically his own guy.

This season worked out in a way that led to Mangini's firing. That just doesn't mean it was the best move. It was the necessary move.

^^^This sums it up.

I'm not sure about this move. I didn't get to see much of the Browns this year, but from what I read, it seemed a lot of blame was to be placed on gameday coaching, but it didn't sound that way to me when I read other people's take on it. It really seemed like a stretch.

I remember when RAC was in charge - there was almost no dissent from posters that his preparation and gameday coaching sucked ass - it was obvious that it did. WRT to Mangini, however, it seems there is a large divide.

Two seasons isn't enough to prove anything, and I'm pretty leery about who is coming in next. I'd be happy with Jeff Fisher, but I'm pretty nervous about everyone else.

PS: No Mike Holmgren as coach. He can be President or coach, but not both. We've already seen how that turned out in SEA (and basically anywhere else it has been tried in the last 20 years). Too much demanded of head coaches and FO people for one person to properly fill both roles.

[DaBrowns41]

Difference is Kubiak has given Texans hope. 9-7, 8-8, 8-8 in 3 of last four years. This season was a let down, but they also lost their best linebacker early in the season, and they were in almost every one of their games and scoring points.

Browns weren't scoring points, and were winning games against good teams with trick plays while losing to mediocre or worse teams and failing to put bad teams away (Carolina biggest example).

[Enigmatic Evil]

I don't like Mangini's termination more than any of us do but really it boils down to Holmgren felt this team was being held back by Mangini. Were there pros to this season amongst the cons, of course there was but in the end Holmgren decided something that none of us can un do. We can only really hope for the best here as fans and move on.

I think the next HC will have a higher set of expectations given what Mangini accomplished only to lose his job.

[BernietheKid]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

I don't like Mangini's termination more than any of us do but really it boils down to Holmgren felt this team was being held back by Mangini. Were there pros to this season amongst the cons, of course there was but in the end Holmgren decided something that none of us can un do. We can only really hope for the best here as fans and move on.

I think the next HC will have a higher set of expectations given what Mangini accomplished only to lose his job.

I agree with the part that I have bolded in that if we had upgraded our talent, kept Mangini around and go 5-11 for a third year than everyone would be screaming for Holmgren's head.

This way Holmgren gets to hire the guy that he wants and it will be all on him.