Give us your Anti-bucket List

[Flugel]

We're at the point where we have we have a front office intact. The general consensus is we had a good draft in 2010. Consequently, everybody is thrilled that part of the organization represents 100% improvement. Rather than dwelling on a recent decision nobody can change - let's try have some fun sharing what we feel are the top 5-10 things that will keep this franchise from going in the wrong direction or kicking the bucket. I'm asking for your version of an anti-bucket list. I'll lead off with an example showing my version.

Flugel's Anti-bucket List:

1. Hire Ron Rivera as Head Coach

2. Hire HC SOON enough where hiring good assistant coaches becomes possible. Waiting til after SB Sunday would handcuff the HC to the extent of not getting the dreamy OC we so desperately need.

3. Add the best available playmaker for our franchise that has lost most of their games by 1-2 big plays. Best available playmaker means pick of the litter at either WR, CB, LB, DE or Safety. I'm not a draft guru to provide the best names but I think we'll be in a position to draft Julio Jones at #6.

4. Do all we can to keep STs Coordinator Brad Seeley. With a backup punter - nothing sucked about ranking #2 at downing opponents inside the 10 yard line.

5. We've never had the personnel to justify a scheme demanding 4 good LBs. We can switch to a 4-3 right now with the understanding Robaire came from one in TN, Rogers came from one in Detroit, Roth came over from one as a DE in Miami and Coleman CAN play in one just like he did at UCLA.

Looking forward to reading yours' and you don't have to stop at #5 if you have more. Run it!

[Vegasdogg]

1) Surround the coach with the best staff out there that is available. Start talking to Chilly and Nolan. Get this guy a good staff, preferably the best talent at OC and DC. Rob Ryan is mediocre and always has been.

2) Obviously with Childress on my list, I want a HC with WCO background. I do not want a guy who failed as a HC before (Mularkey, Marty (not another Marty), Mariucci,) and I don't want Gruden or Fox. Preferably someone H&H know well and can work with, mentor and build a winner with.

3) Keep the 3-4. If we are installing a WCO we cannot have the defense also learning a new D. It is too much, plus I think the 3-4 is a better D with the right players.

4) Ditto on Brad Seely. Ditto on Hodges. Also, sign Dawson - you never know what you got until it is gone. We don't kick in a dome here in Cleveland - it isn't easy and he does it well.

5) Do something with these WR's and RB's. Get Cribbs involved. Develop the younger guys at WR. Get Hillis and Hardesty moving forward, but develop another guy and keep him. Don't trade another Harrison or Davis. And please use Evan Moore in 2011.

6) Add draft picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds if possible. Trade players, trade packages, but get more high picks.

7) Get a WR in FA - rookies take a while to develop and we need to start winning now. Not sure what WCO WR's are available, but I imagine the quicker and smarter they are the better.

8) Beef up the right side of the OL. Add depth there as well. And whatever it takes start building a young talented nasty DL. Now!

9) Sign a FA linebacker for the 3-4. Pay him. Get a good one.

10) Start winning now. You have now inherited a better situation than any coach since our return. You have a front office in place, and a good mentor for the WCO in Holmgren. Deliver me 10 wins in 2011.

[nickers]

Sorry I dont want a DC (Rivera) has head coach...every coach with the exception of Palmer has been a Defensive cockamamie conservative coach...fuck that!

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by nickers

Sorry I dont want a DC (Rivera) has head coach...every coach with the exception of Palmer has been a Defensive cockamamie conservative coach...fuck that!

LOL! History says you have a valid concern; but I'm also glad you brought up Chris Palmer because there's been OC's like Norv Turner, Cam Cameron, Brad Childress and the poor feller that coached the Rams a couple years failing as HCs. I don't think Gary Kubiak and Mike Shanahan are accomplishing very much either POST Elway and Terrell Davis. Don't these guys almost become false positives for acing things with elite talent then suckign in the absence of it? When you get Coordinators that are smart Xs and Os - it doesn't necessarily mean there're great with the Jimmys and Joes.

You never know if you're gonna get a John Harbaugh, who went from being a strength coach to a STs coach to Head Coach. Some would say Brian Billick had the better resume - but I never saw anything genius about Baltimore's offense with him there. In fact, he was eventually fired for the continued disappointment and underachievements of his offense. They're a more balanced team today than they were back then; so now they seemingly make the playoffs every year as opposed to every other year.

Linde Infante was my favorite OC of alltime; BUT was he ever that impressive as a Head Coach? Not really, so let's be happy our former DC Marty Schottenheimer HIRED a smart OC like Infanted when he was named HC. Now THAT is what I except from a smart Head Coach. HIRING a good coordinators providing they have enough time to do so. FWIW, Marv Levy ran a FREAKIN Wing T offense in KC and had a very umimpressive football resume prior to Buffalo. Bill Polian hired the guy and people thought he was nuts when Bruce Coslet became the OC teams were competing to hire as HC. Guess what? Levy hired Ted Marchibroda as an Offensive Coordinator; and they never even considered the Wing T offense A GOOD coach isn't confined to just 1 scheme - he works with what he has and allows his coordinators to play chess and teach.

Now that we've covered that - you're not getting out of this so easy Nickers. I want your list.

[nickers]

well the guys I like are:....

Gruden
Fassel
Shurmur...(sounds ok so far)

As far as Marty goes despite the OC he found a way to lose with his Prevent Def. Jeff Fisher...another conservative HC hasnt won a sausage so how great is he really?

Look at the coaches w/Dynastys' Brown,Lombardi.Knoll and Walsh......All offensive coaches...

yes there have been exceptions like Belicheat,Landry and Shula....Billick was a victim of not ionly himself but I'll blame it partly on Bollers inability to read defenses and give the ball away....Sorry DC's as HC's irk the shit out of Me and always seem to go into a shell when crucial descisions have to be made offensively during games. Im not drinkin the DC kool-aid and never will...we havent had a real offensive HC since Rutigliano who took a bunch of guys who werent exactly superstars except for G Pruit and the Wizard. Both of whom lived near Me as a kid and was always a thrill to see them come into the local convenient store where I lived.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by nickers

well the guys I like are:....

Gruden
Fassel
Shurmur...(sounds ok so far)

As far as Marty goes despite the OC he found a way to lose with his Prevent Def. Jeff Fisher...another conservative HC hasnt won a sausage so how great is he really?

Look at the coaches w/Dynastys' Brown,Lombardi.Knoll and Walsh......All offensive coaches...

yes there have been exceptions like Belicheat,Landry and Shula....Billick was a victim of not ionly himself but I'll blame it partly on Bollers inability to read defenses and give the ball away....Sorry DC's as HC's irk the shit out of Me and always seem to go into a shell when crucial descisions have to be made offensively during games. Im not drinkin the DC kool-aid and never will...we havent had a real offensive HC since Rutigliano who took a bunch of guys who werent exactly superstars except for G Pruit and the Wizard. Both of whom lived near Me as a kid and was always a thrill to see them come into the local convenient store where I lived.

Thanks Nickers. Good stuff! I always like it when people reflect on when this team used to win. I understand why you've been soured on DCs. As for Vince Lombardi, his first big gig was as a DC for one of the military academies.

Just know that the RIGHT HC isn't here to be a Coordinator. He's here to make sure the RIGHT Coordinators are here calling the offenses and defenses.

[BernietheKid]

Many hurdles need to be cleared in Browns offseason
Coaching search first but draft and free agency are close behind
By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal sports writer
POSTED: 09:10 a.m. EST, Jan 08, 2011

The Browns recently stumbled through their 10th losing season since 1999. Now they're looking for their fifth full-time head coach since the start of the expansion era.
You know what that means, right? Browns fans see this as another classic example of ''Here we go again.''

''The 'here we go again' feeling is real,'' Browns President Mike Holmgren said last Monday after he fired coach Eric Mangini. ''Have we taken some strides this year, even though it was a tough year in some respects? I think we have.

''I don't want to [hire a head coach] again, so I have to get this one right. I really think I have to get this one right for organizational continuity, for the ability to keep people in place for a long period of time to develop the organization. While I understand how people would say, ['Here we go again'], I think we did do some things that we can build on.''

Boy, Cleveland sports fans sure hope so. The following season wrap-up explores components of Holmgren's mission and how the franchise got to this point . . . again:

COACHING SEARCH

• Did Mangini need to go?: The short answer is yes. I would have liked to see him get one more shot, but the writing was on the wall after the Browns suffered back-to-back losses against the Buffalo Bills and the Cincinnati Bengals, both of whom had only two wins at the time. You can argue whether Holmgren made the right decision, but his choice was justified. Mangini isn't one of Holmgren's guys, meaning he's not from the same football family and philosophical background. Therefore, he needed to knock Holmgren's socks off to keep his job. A second consecutive record of 5-11 certainly didn't impress Holmgren enough despite all the statistical strides the team made in 2010.

• Who should coach the Browns?: One of Holmgren's top men or the Big Show himself. Holmgren said he will not limit his coaching search, but he should. For the sake of fluidity, the new coach should be offensive-minded and have roots in a West Coast system. He should also be able to develop Colt McCoy into the franchise quarterback he appears to be capable of becoming. The men who can meet those requirements are ESPN analyst Jon Gruden, a former coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and the Oakland Raiders, and Philadelphia Eagles offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg. Gruden is by far the more popular candidate, but he also might be the more unrealistic one. Some say Mornhinweg can't succeed because he went 5-27 as head coach of the Detroit Lions (2001-02). But he fits the profile of a man destined to become the next great head coach, according to the findings of New York University researchers that were brought to the forefront by ESPN The Magazine. If Holmgren can't hire Gruden or Mornhinweg — again, instead of laughing, think Bill Belichick — he should return to the sideline. Former Carolina Panthers coach John Fox is another potential candidate, but he's a defensive coach all the way. If Holmgren takes that route, what was the point of firing Mangini? St. Louis Rams offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur, who already has interviewed with the Browns, is a darkhorse because he has strong ties to Holmgren and General Manager Tom Heckert, plus he's familiar with the West Coast offense. However, Shurmur has never been a head coach.

• What will happen to the assistant coaches?: The new head coach should bring in the guys he wants, meaning most of Mangini's assistants, if not all of them, will likely be let go and lesser coaching searches will ensue. It would be nice to see defensive coordinator Rob Ryan stay with the Browns, but other opportunities — he has already interviewed for the Panthers' head coaching vacancy — might lure him away. Special teams coordinator Brad Seely is one of the best in the business, so the new coach would be wise to retain him.


PERSONNEL

• Which potential free agents should stay?: There are several Browns players who aren't signed with the team for next season, including running back Mike Bell, kicker Phil Dawson, safety Abram Elam, linebacker Matt Roth, wide receiver Chansi Stuckey, linebacker Jason Trusnik, fullback Lawrence Vickers, quarterback Seneca Wallace, offensive lineman Floyd Womack and cornerback Eric Wright. A new collective bargaining agreement will determine whether they become restricted or unrestricted free agents. Nevertheless, it should be a priority to keep Dawson, Elam, Roth, Vickers and Wallace. Dawson, Roth and Vickers are three of the Browns' best players. Dawson is the franchise's all-time leader in field goals made. He acknowledged his days with the Browns might be done, but it would be nice to see the team's only player left from its expansion season stick around. He will turn 36 on Jan. 23, but he's still an elite kicker and one of the best in bad weather. Roth is stout against the run, and he can provide a decent pass rush. He finished second on the team with 86 tackles and added 31/2 sacks. Vickers is one of the best fullbacks in the NFL. He has become a perennial Pro Bowl snub who knocks the snot out of defenders year after year despite being overlooked and underrated.

• Greatest needs: There are several, so let's run through the main ones in order. 1.

Wide receiver — Stuckey led the Browns' receivers with 40 catches this past season. He ranked 65th in receptions among receivers in the NFL. Enough said.
2. Defensive line — There's a desperate need for a pass-rushing defensive end who's built for the 3-4 defense. Robaire Smith, 33, is not signed for next season and his future is in doubt because of a career-threatening back injury he suffered this past season.
3. Cornerback — Joe Haden will be elite, but the Browns need someone else, too. Think about how many big plays they gave up this past season in the passing game. If they can add a solid corner, Sheldon Brown could move to safety, an idea he's not opposed to.
4. Backup running back — Peyton Hillis is a juggernaut, but even freaks of nature need reinforcements. Montario Hardesty could become an inspirational comeback story, though he can't be counted on to fully rebound from his second torn knee ligament.
5. Offensive line — Even with guard Shawn Lauvao waiting to crack the starting lineup on a regular basis, the right side needs an upgrade.
6. Linebacker — Roth, Scott Fujita and Chris Gocong are solid, but the defense needs some more youth in its front seven.

• Draft outlook: The Browns have the sixth overall pick in the 2011 NFL Draft. For what it's worth, ESPN analyst Mel Kiper has Alabama defensive lineman Marcell Dareus ranked No. 6 on his ''Big Board.'' Dareus, though, is best suited to play defensive tackle in a 4-3 defense, Kiper wrote. Other names to watch include Georgia wide receiver A.J. Green (ranked No. 3 by Kiper), LSU cornerback Patrick Peterson (No. 4), Nebraska cornerback Prince Amukamara (No. 5), North Carolina defensive end Robert Quinn (No. 7), Missouri quarterback Blaine Gabbert (No. 8) and Texas A&M outside linebacker Von Miller (No. 9). If the Browns don't take a wide receiver, here's hoping for a pass-rushing defensive end.


2010 AND BEYOND

• High point of the 2010 season: Consecutive wins over the defending Super Bowl champion New Orleans Saints and the New England Patriots gave Browns fans a source of pride and made the team relevant again. The stadium was rocking Nov. 14, when the Browns hosted the New York Jets in a thriller that qualified as must-see TV. Unfortunately, Stuckey's fumble in overtime not only proved to be pivotal against the Jets, but it was the turning point for the entire season. The Browns could never recover as they lost six of their final eight games.

• Low point of the 2010 season: Heading into Week 14, the Browns had a record of 5-7 and there was hope they would win at least two more games than they did the previous season. Instead, they fell to the lowly Bills and Bengals, sparking a four-game losing streak to end the season. We'll never know if a record of 7-9 would have bought Mangini more time.

• Top reason for optimism: Heckert will have another offseason to work his magic. Think about the players the Browns acquired during Heckert's first year as the team's GM — Fujita, Gocong, Brown, Hillis and tight end Benjamin Watson. His first draft with the Browns also yielded three rookie starters — McCoy, Haden and safety T.J. Ward.

• Top reason for pessimism: Even if the new coach is one of Holmgren's guys, there will be a period of adjustment. If the players' union and the league fail to strike a new labor deal by the March 3 deadline, the offseason schedule could shift. The team's transition to a new coach would probably become more complicated as a result.

Ohio.com - Many hurdles need to be cleared in Browns offseason

[Sez.EJ]

To me it's super simple..

1. Be aggressive in free agency: Bring in 3 WR's to compete with who we have (and don't be cheap.. great F/A WR class this year. , 1 RT who is 27 or younger, and a backup Center (there is no one really backing up Mack with any experience

2. Draft Defense. CB ,DE's, LB's, Saftey... no projects..just playmakers at the top of the draft... You want to get to/win the superbowl.. you gotta stop high powered passing games.. Brady, Breese, Mannings, ETC...Oh.. and have a great draft.

3. Hire the right HC ..who the heck that is .. anyones guess

4. HC hires the right coordinators.. what style or flavor.. I don't care.. just put up points on offense and limit them on defense

5. WIN more games than the other teams in our division.

[Riffer X]

Warning about going batshit crazy on FA's, that can be a recipe for disaster as we should know by now. This is still a process, not the Danald in Washington methodology.

[nickers]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Warning about going batshit crazy on FA's, that can be a recipe for disaster as we should know by now. This is still a process, not the Danald in Washington methodology.

I agree Daniel Snyder is a tool and as far as Im concerned should be stripped of his ownership...hes done nothing but embarrass himself.that franchise and that city.

[Enigmatic Evil]

1) Hire a Head Coach/Coordinators to accompany that coach.: We need one... I have firm belief that Holmgren will bring in someone qualified to do the job if we like him or not. Daboll and Ryan will likely not be around next season, bringing in intelligent coordinators to help improve the team. I think better coaches are essential to the overall process.

2) Improve the roster: The roster needs additional depth, and it needs key positions to have better starters if we want to keep going in the right direction. Pick a position... we could probably use a better starter there.

3) Another good draft: Many of us would agree that the 2009 draft was probably the best this team has ever had... since 1999. We need to keep drafting well and I think this next draft is as pivotal as any we've had before. This team needs to draft well, and CONTINUE to draft well if we want to have any hope of hitting the next level as a team.

[nickers]

Just know that the RIGHT HC isn't here to be a Coordinator. He's here to make sure the RIGHT Coordinators are here calling the offenses and defenses.[/QUOTE]


Ok heres what I find a problem with in this statement...First let Me say your points are well taken...But some coaches typicially DC's "Run thier defense" and most adhere to a conservative approach on offense ala Mangini,Cowher etc....although they may appoint someone to "run thier offense" they do what the HC wants...if a conservative HC is HC that means he still reserves the right to impact the outcome or dynamics of the game. Even when Marty ball was here he still found a way to fuck things up much like Mangini did. Even if we had a great team Mangini wouldve found a way to screw things up...It doesnt make him a bad coach per se'...just makes him a lousey game day HC and a liability to the team...Nothing is perfect I mean yeah we can use red right 88 as a counterpoint to the debate. but that was just a total fluke that Mike Davis was actually out of position to make a play....It all boils down to what kind of poison you like.