Waiting is over.. It's Shurmur

[hiwaygal]

EE, you need to edit your avatar pic...

Instead of "!!!" you need to put "WTF???"

I think that would just about sum up my feelings.

In the immortalized words of Vegasdogg: What HC has ever been successful when his coordinators are hand-picked for him?

Guess we're about to find out Vegas.

[OconRecon]

Nothing else to do but give this guy fan support.

But, I'm not sure the Bradford thing isn't the other way around. Probably a better chance Bradford made him look good rather than him turning Bradford into a heck of a passer.


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Twitter feed:


@Reggie_Hodges Reggie Hodges


"I met Coach Shurmer briefly on the day he interviewed last week, seemed genuine.. I'm excited about our future!!"

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@SportsTimeOhio SportsTime Ohio



Change of plans - STO will carry the Browns press conference LIVE at 11am FRI. Then Bruce will be take phone calls... http://fb.me/OGMnYvia

[sofakingwhat]

Wait a minute he is a Michigan guy! Fuck him lets run his ass out of town just like Braylon.

[Franchise]

Reggie_Hodges Reggie Hodges by CoachA12



I met Coach Shurmer briefly on the day he interviewed last week, seemed genuine.. I'm excited about our future!!

[DirtyDeeds]

All I can say is....

YouTube - alice cooper welcome to my nightmare

[DirtyDawg]

Originally Posted by DeadWombat

Ok about the 3rd and long situation.... look, I have no problem with a draw on 3rd and long. But when you are showing a run on 3rd down, and can see that the defense has lined up to stop said run, then when you run your fullback around the side, leaving your RB without a dedicated blocker up the middle, maybe calling a draw isn't the right choice. My problem was how the play is designed... that's what I was always frustrated by. Also, the fact that the past 2 seasons you could even predict when we would run a draw play in its self aggravating. I remember calling out the draw play a quite a few times during the season before our team even lined up.

The point of a draw is to fake the long ball and get your opponents to bite and draw back in coverage. But when your opponents don't respect your long ball, it's pointless to pretend you're going to throw. Our opponents knew this which is why IIRC the 3rd-and-long draw got us a first down only once this season, which was against the Saints. We rarely, if ever actually threw the long ball... Sometimes you just need to throw if only just to keep our opponents honest. We didn't throw, and that's why we saw defenses not fooled by our 3rd and long draws.That's what I hated about our 3rd and long situations.



Anyway, back to Shurmur. Yes, I know these are just fan reactions so you can't take what they said at face value. But you can't completely dismiss them either. You gotta read between the lines. This guy has no experience as a head coach, and as far as the Rams offense goes, all that can be said is that Bradford looked great but the offense its self stunk and none of the fans are sad to see him go. Shurmur wasn't exactly turning heads around the sports analysts offices during his tenure, either.

Yes, the offense lacks talent which is a big part of the reason why it stinks, but the OC is directly responsible for working with what talent he has to move the chains. You can't put 100% of the blame on lack of talent, and niether can you blame it all on the playcalling and schemes.

This hiring had zero "wow" factor to it. There's nothing on paper that directly points to Shurmur being "the guy" that's a perfect fit for HC of the Browns. It's just not there which is why i'm here expressing doubt. At best all we can say is that we have to trust Holmgren's judgment in bringing this guy in.

It's the off season. I have plenty of time to warm up to Shurmur... but now the only thing I have going for me is faith that Holmgren knows what he's doing.

I can remember one time they ran a draw with Hillis on 3rd and long in Tampa and got the first down. So that makes at least two, I guess. But... you are running the draw accepting that you probably won't get it but that you aren't taking any risks. The conversion rate is low for all teams.

I don't think teams were stacking the box on 3rd and long... on every other situation yes... but not 3rd and long. Defenses stopped them because that's what happens when any team runs a draw on 3rd and long most of the time. It's a forfeit. You know the old adage - "any drive that ends in a kick is ok."

I mean... did you see most of the attempts to throw the ball downfield this year anyway? Most attempts weren't even close. We probably had just as good a chance of getting the first down on a run on 3rd and long as we did with the pass... without the risk of interception or sack.

I agree that it's always some split between talent and scheme that is to blame. I guess I'll go out on a crazy limb and say that Mike Holmgren thinks its the talent in Shurmur's case since he just hired him.

The end of your post says it all to me. You wanted "wow" factor. You wanted something to get excited about. That's the wrong way to think. That's the type of people that are all complaining right now that this hire is bad because its a "boring" hire. If Mike Tomlin, Mike Smith, John Harbaugh, etc were boring hires because they were unknowns... give me a boring hire all day.

And from what I've seen, a lot of players and people around Shurmur did think he'd be a head coach at some point.

I myself am waiting to form an opinion on the guy. This is a big change... he's unlike our last two coaches in that he's energetic communicator and his system is totally different, too.

[Greythan]

This is a big change... he's unlike our last two coaches in that he's energetic communicator and his system is totally different, too

Don't bother trying to point out something in Shurmur's resume, personal attributes or skill set as evidence that he'll be better than our last two coaches. You won't find it.

The only ace in the hole for Shurmur is the guy that hired him. We have to put all our eggs in the "Holmgren knows how to find and develop top flight head coaches" basket. Otherwise, the hire would look highly suspect based on our history.

[DirtyDawg]

To a large extent, I'd agree Greythan. But isn't that what we signed up for when Holmgren came in here? He was going to make it his system. And there was nobody better running his system... unless you wanted the 5-27 lions guy.

[Greythan]

Totally agreed. I'm not gnashing teeth at all. Just saying (as I've been pretty consistent in saying) that the only thing we have to hang our hat on with the Mangini termination is Holmgren's ability to find and develop top flight head coaches.

Let's hope he's made his best "discovery" yet. I'd take someone between Reid and Gruden as an alternative.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Hey guys, you are going to LOVE THIS ONE!!!!


Shurmur, the guy who has done about as well as Brian Daboll as an OC in a weaker conference, is GOING TO CALL HIS OWN PLAYS as HC.

They will hire an inexperienced OC, and Shumur will be calling the plays. As reported by the PD.

Better be a MAJOR upgrade on offense this offseason, or this guy is DOOMED.

He's going to be buried real quickly in this town.

Prepare for as many quick slants and dump offs as your little hearts desire.

Good grief!

[jason j]

Ok, someone better start a poll, 'cause I'm having trouble getting a fix on who's on what side of this issue. Sheesh!

Allow me to offer this. Whatever faith you have in Mike Holmgren to do the job, lend a bit of that to Coach Shurmur. Coaches travel in packs. They're a fractious, territorial bunch. It's hard to mix them. They try to consume outsiders as opposed to assimilate them. And while this hire screams of coaching apples falling none too far from trees, you have to take the good with the bad.

The Good: You'll have a clean(er) line of communication between the front office and the coaching staff. Holmgren said he'd never give a coach a player he didn't want. The hiring of Pat Shurmer immediately eliminates a handful of opportunities for that to happen. Holmgren and Heckert will have to pass on far fewer prospects to accommodate a conflicting philosophy. With everyone marching in lock-step, the group can begin developing, recruiting, and drafting Cleveland Browns - an idealistic and, to this point, fictitious type of player that resonates the culture and conviction of a team and a city - in much the same way the Rooneys have been drafting "Stillers" for about 3 decades.

Also, I have to admit, the flexibility that Eric Mangini and Rob Ryan showed in piecing together that multi-front 3-4 leaves the Browns in a pretty good position to make a subtle shift to a hybrid 4-3, if they decided to go that way. Now... in my personal opinion the 4-3 defense needs to go the way of the leather helmet, nary to be heard from again. But that's more of a personal matter for me to work out. I can't think of a single athletic endeavor that can be improved by increasing the number of fat guys crawling around on the ground by 33%, but what do I know? I can't reasonably argue that it doesn't work... but it's certainly no fun to coach.

That said, IF, they keep Rogers (huge IF there), they could drop him right into the 3, put Rubin at the 1, and you've got Coleman and Roth (IF he comes back) as your strong/weak ends. It's not terrible. And you never have to see Matt Roth backpedal again. Which is a good thing. That dancing bear routine was starting to get ugly in those zone blitz packages. And if he doesn't, you've got a whole host of 4-3 DE's who are out of jobs... some through simple Free Agency, and some through the attrition of the position - there just aren't as many openings for hands down defensive ends under 280 lbs. as there used to be. Mathias Kiwanuka and Ray Edwards come to mind.

The Bad: Well, you've got nothing to go on. QB coaching and a couple of seasons as an offensive coordinator don't offer much evidence to someone's ability.

Although I will take issue with someone's post earlier about a team not winning the Super Bowl running the west coast offense in 13 years. Uh, that's simply not true. You've got elements of the WCO in Indianapolis' offense, certainly the Ravens offense in 2001 - even the Steelers offense if I had to nitpick. That Bucs team in 2003. The back-to-back Denver teams in the late 90's and the Packers and 49ers before them. Without claiming the Steelers that's 7 out of 15 Super Bowl champs using the same basic shell of an offense. Not too bad.

Of course there are bad things about having such a homogeneous group running the show. You have a tendency toward group-think. You can be agreeable to a fault. It's kind of why nothing good seems to get done unless Congress is split. When everyone agrees, you can grease the wheels, but sometimes that just means you arrive at disaster faster.

That said... coaching staffs need to have a certain unison. And when the front office is echoing that same philosophy, you've got a chance to really move things. Now, to what end? Eh... hard saying. But they've certainly got "their" guy. And if he can complete Holmgren's vision for what the Browns "should" be, then more power to him.

Frankly, (and this is hardly comforting to a rabid fan base), the Browns could've done a lot worse. Gruden was a disaster waiting to happen. Fox may have fared better, but I don't have much confidence in that. Billick, Fisher, aren't interested in a reclamation project unless they'd have all the authority. Personally, I thought Mike Sherman should get a look. But I kind of get not going with a guy pushing 60 to rebuild a franchise (again). Shurmur's actually in that same vein. Not too this, not too that. Works hard, players love him. Who knows, they just might be right.

-jj

[lemosley01]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

Hey guys, you are going to LOVE THIS ONE!!!!


Shurmur, the guy who has done about as well as Brian Daboll as an OC in a weaker conference, is GOING TO CALL HIS OWN PLAYS as HC.

They will hire an inexperienced OC, and Shumur will be calling the plays. As reported by the PD.

Better be a MAJOR upgrade on offense this offseason, or this guy is DOOMED.

He's going to be buried real quickly in this town.

Prepare for as many quick slants and dump offs as your little hearts desire.

Good grief!

I suspect if he is having trouble managing both roles, it will come out in the form of bad personnel handling, but probably not as 'bad playcalling or design'. Assuming he doesn't suck at playcalling and design.