OC and DC options

[Brown Warrior]

Hey, the truth is, we probably got better at OC no matter who steps in. Just ask Heath Evans:

Childress interviewed for the job Daboll eventually took with the Dolphins. In a radio interview Friday with ESPN 760 (WEFL-AM) in West Palm Beach, Fla., New Orleans Saints fullback Heath Evans harshly criticized the decision, even though he described Daboll as a ''good dude.''

''The Dolphins probably just got worse,'' said Evans, who played for the New England Patriots while Daboll was a member of the coaching staff. . . . ''When he was in New England, he was never a guy that I would have considered the brains of the operation.''

[kydawgfan]

My guess and hope is that holmgren/shurmur have a greenbay assistant in mind to become our next on the job OC..

Several of those guys would be fantastic choices worthy of an upgrade...

[Brown Warrior]

To Heath Evans: Amen. Have never seen/heard an OC seem less like an OC than Daboll. I was hoping he was deceptively smart, sneaky smart... because he seemed like a meathead. A TEs coach at best.

So, agreed: Did NOT seem like the brains of this operation either.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

To Heath Evans: Amen. Have never seen/heard an OC seem less like an OC than Daboll. I was hoping he was deceptively smart, sneaky smart... because he seemed like a meathead. A TEs coach at best.

So, agreed: Did NOT seem like the brains of this operation either.

Veg posted this the other day on the NFL Forum. Not sure how he could be the brains of the organization as just an assistant, but apparently Heath is an expert on Daboll.

Former Patriot Heath Evans has an opinion.......

Quote:
Brian Daboll is the new offensive coordinator of the Miami Dolphins. Heath Evans is a fullback for the New Orleans Saints. The Dolphins and Saints don’t play each other next season, so Daboll and Evans won’t be crossing paths.
Maybe that’s why Evans feels free to unload on Daboll with both barrels.
In an interview with ESPN 760, Evans was asked what he thought of Daboll’s hiring, from the perspective of someone who played in New England for two years while Daboll was on the coaching staff.
“The Dolphins probably just got worse,” Evans answered. “You know I’m always going to shoot you straight. . . . When he was in New England, he was never a guy that I would have considered the brains of the operation.”
Evans acknowledged that it’s been a couple years since he and Daboll have been in the same locker room and that Daboll “probably learned a lot” since then, but he also said he thinks hiring Daboll was a mistake for the Dolphins.
“As soon as I saw it I second-guessed the decision,” Evans said. “A franchise that is really just struggling for success, why do you take an unproven commodity? I second guess it. I don’t know.”
Evans added, however, that he has nothing personally against Daboll.
“Good luck to him,” Evans said. “He was always nice to me — good dude.”
I shudder to think what Evans would say about a coach he regarded as a bad dude.

[Jax Dawg]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

You don't hire your position coaches before you hire your coordinators but I think the Browns look at Mark Whipple more as a QB coach then a candidate for the coordinator's job. He worked with Big Ben for a few years then worked in Philly when Heckert was there before he moved to "The U" to be OC.

It was thought that he was the front runner for the U Conn job but it didn't happen. He's a man without a job presently. He would work well under Shurmur and Chilly.

I read UCONN didn't want to pay the big time assistant coaches Whipple wanted to bring in if he was hired as HC. Looks like UCONN isn't serious about being an above average Div-1A school. Their loss could be our gain unless Whipple wants to be a HC in college somewhere else.

What Happened To Mark Whipple? - UConn Huskies Football Blog | Hartford Courant | Desmond Conner

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Greythan

I agree largely with the talent > coaching sentiment.

I mean the talking heads at ESPN are talking about Tomlin being the second best coach in the NFL behind hoodie. Seriously? I mean really.

Coaching matters. Coaching doesn't matter NEARLY as much as having a) a defined system and b) a good, consistent front office.

You and Golfer are saying this way better than me and I appreciate it. This falls on deaf ears and blind eyes with a large portion of our fanbase. If a coach comes in and there's 1 keeper from the draft the year before with 4 picks scheduled for his first draft with 10 years of bad drafting before his hire - is a 1-2 year plan gonna show ANYTHING he's capable of?

It took BB 4 years to make the playoffs here and he's one of the best in the business at OUTSMARTING people from the sidelines. BUT, when his starting QB Vinny got hurt and Todd Philcox was fumbling snaps, handoffs and releases - our fanbase was putting for sale signs in his front yard in season #1.

I don't know if we have alot of young fans here or not; because I'm stunned nobody remembers how wonderful 5-27 footbal was with the WCO without a Jerry Rice, Roger Criag, Tom Rathman, Russ Francis/Brent Jones, John Taylor, and Joe Montana. That said, I didn't know as much as Carmen Policy knows right? Unfortunately for Carmen, I DID fully understand what a startover feels like since we had been practicing it since 1990/1991. While we were sucking on offense, we were 31st at stopping the run. To shed a little light about the coaching thing - Brian Billick was a candidate looking for the personnel he could win sooner with. Cleveland got the token "no thanks!" Chris Palmer was the unlucky winner here; and was kicked out of the batter's box on strike 2. He too got the for sale signs thrown in his yard from the SAME people wondering why none of the super hero candidates want to touch this challenge. If we could collectively understand this - it would change the arm pit reputation outsiders have toward our fanbase and alot of our media. I'm just the mail man with that one.

Due to the age of this team and alot of bad drafts inherited, I fully understand this isn't a 1-2 year quick fix. We can get close WITHOUT injuries; but the number of holes to patch means there's inevitable depth issues on top of it all. Anyone that does not understand this will be campaigning for a new coordinator and head coach as early as the first month of games. If anyone caught last week's pre-game, Tomlin said it best in my paraphrase here: "This isn't at all about trickery and gadgets today. It's about our best vrs their best and the best team will win." Did anyone see Pitt's offense TRICKING the Jets defense? FWIW, Dick Lebeau had the same defensive schemes on a playoff-less Buffalo team so PERSONNEL really matters. Without giving me the hindsight 20/20, who here wanted Clay Matthews with our first pick in 2009? I don't remember 1 person telling me they wanted him in the upperhalf of round 1. And that doesn't excuse me either. BUT, the team with the RIGHT personel guru slam dunked that pick for 2 Pro Bowls and 1 SB already.

ALOT of unpopular candidates like Jim Caldwell, Marv Levy and Chuck Noll (a former OG) can look brilliant when they get tons of great draft picks under their wing. Would Jim Caldwell's fate have been any different if he was the poor soul sentenced to Phil Savage? I sincerely WANT Pat Shurmur to succeed; and the good news is he'll be the first coach hired to ride the momentum of 1 good draft here before him.

[Enigmatic Evil]

People have been giving Flugs a hard time because he continues to present the same argument. It would be annoying if it wasn't the complete truth. This makes me think back to an article Sports Illustrated posted a number of years ago, before the EM Nazism article, regarding the Cleveland Browns being "destined to fail" because of their front office structure and the terrible personnel decisions the team has made over the years (this was produced during the RAC era, if I remember correctly) and really it's hard to ignore it.

For fans that have been a part of this team longer than I have, I can only imagine how frustrating it must have been to see the team in the state it was in the early 90's, moved by Art to Baltimore and then to win a Super Bowl less than half-a-decade later. To see this team come back in 1999, the way it has. It has to be frustrating to a lot of those fans who know what we could have been if things went differently.

The thing is the "Woulda, shoulda, coulda" game is a very dangerous one to play. We could have built a proper team around Tim Couch in 1999, instead we kind of rolled the dice, made some questionable draft picks and lost confidence in Couch when he got hurt. Maybe we could have become a winner with Jeff Garcia if Butch Davis understood the kind of QB that Garcia is, not to mention our offensive line was mediocre at best during that time. Perhaps things would have been different with Brady Quinn if the system he came into was a bit more organized instead of a locker room dominated by ego's and the paychecks that brought them here.

I believe in where the team is going because we're all on the same page for once. Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur. These guys are on the same page and THAT is what is essential to progress of any kind. Yes, it's going to most likely get uglier before it gets better especially with the amount of change that we're ushering in. That's IF we even change to a 4-3... everyone thinks that's for certain but what if Jauron decides, fuck it I'm going 3-4 it's already established here, why rock the boat? That COULD happen...

I don't know I'm just trying to be a optimist here. I know a lot of you guys are worn down by how this off-season has started but I believe that this team is headed in the right direction.

[Greythan]

FLugs/EE, excellent posts.

I think you have covered the spectrum of views in your two posts. I'd also say that 99% of this community can probably relate, if not validate, the collective perspective of your two posts.

We need a system (and a "good" system which is part of the trick). We need continuity. Only then can we establish the type of ball club we all wish to see.

[Brown Warrior]

The cold, hard truth is you have to earn the right to have continuity in the NFL. We can debate the parameters, but you have to show some serious growth in year two, after two full offseasons for personnel and system integration. It has to show on the field.

There were to key issues with the last brass: The passing game was literally the bottom of the barrel both seasons... in a passing league; and the defense was not only mediocre but really old. Really shitty combination when the best teams in football have Pro Bowl and future HOF type QBs and excellent defenses (running game is more of an afterthought these days).

Packers and Steelers were popular picks from jump street this year, before all of GB's injuries. They both have terrific QBs and fantastic defenses. Neither is going to put a back in the Pro Bowl, especially Green Bay (much like the Colts, Pats, and Saints). Mendenhall averaged 3.8 yards a carry. The Packers have the best group of outside receivers in the game and the Steelers have been drafting guys in rounds 2 and 3, like Wallace and Sanders, who have looked fantastic for them.

My point: The Browns didn't look like a team that should be embracing continuity of any kind after records of 4-12, 5-11, and 5-11 with a season-ending 4-game losing streak. Like it or not, it was time to search again for something worth continuing.

And with Holmgren in charge, you pretty well know what that something's gonna be: The WCO and a 4-3 defense like he ran in Green Bay and Seattle... and like Heckert stocked up in Philly.

It's absolutely the best chance Colt McCoy has of being as successful as our division rivals' QBs because he's nothing like them, which is just fine and dandy. He's in an ideal situation, frankly... but he has to show up next year, right through December.

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Hey, the truth is, we probably got better at OC no matter who steps in. Just ask Heath Evans:

Childress interviewed for the job Daboll eventually took with the Dolphins. In a radio interview Friday with ESPN 760 (WEFL-AM) in West Palm Beach, Fla., New Orleans Saints fullback Heath Evans harshly criticized the decision, even though he described Daboll as a ''good dude.''

''The Dolphins probably just got worse,'' said Evans, who played for the New England Patriots while Daboll was a member of the coaching staff. . . . ''When he was in New England, he was never a guy that I would have considered the brains of the operation.''

That's REALLY funny..

and also troubling..in regards to Mangini and his decision making.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

That's REALLY funny..

and also troubling..in regards to Mangini and his decision making.

Kinda cracked me up, too. Not so subtle way of saying Daboll is dim.

[Greythan]

I don't disagree with most of your post Shep. Its pretty spot on.

The point remains the same: sooner or later we have to commit and stay the course.

Put it this way, if Shurmur isn't head coach in 3 years then I'll say we would have been better off simply keeping Mangini for continuity's sake. So, as Holmgren said himself: "I better get this one right".