Change to 4-3 is seemingly official.

[Greythan]

The question always is of the chicken and egg variety.

Prime example: Tom Brady is as good a cold weather QB as you can find. His last game against the Jets on the same field was an absolute torching. The Pats had two weeks to prepare for the Jets (and teams with 2 weeks to prepare ALWAYS win ).

So what happened? Sanchez out dueled Brady? Really?

Or, Brady choked. Really?

No, I'll tell you what happened. The better defensive team dictated the play, forced some turnovers, and won the football game. Sorta like what we did to the Pats in their previous loss.

Small sample size I'll admit. However, give me a team with a defense that gets hot and I'll raise you one over a "hot" QB. Perfect storm? Hot QB and hot defense. Its a bit obvious of course, but its the ultimate winning recipe.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

My point being, we didn't have the parts to be successful in a 3-4 and they won't look any better in a 4-3. Rubin may work and Fujita would be a nice WOLB. Roth just might be better as a DE then a 3-4 OLB. I believe DQJ would be a very solid MLB but none will be dominate. Just as none were dominate in the 3-4. Some were solid but there is nobody in our front 7 that could dominate in either defense.

That said, we need a talent upgrade no matter which defense we run. We could start with looking at some FAs like Charles Johnson, Stephen Tulloch, Chad Greenway, Jason Bobin and Cullen Jenkins.

Don't forget Gocong who is really a 4-3 LB and is already in the fold. I think Roth will be better at DE than OLB. I think DQJ, if they resign him, would better fit at the other OLB position.

I agree it won't really look that much better in a 3-4. Just don't agree that the switch creates more holes to fill. At worst it is the same project that was already there.

The FA market will be one of the nice things if CLE goes to a 4-3. It is far easier to find guys who fit and play well in that scheme than it is to find a 3-4 player.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Masters

Don't forget Gocong who is really a 4-3 LB and is already in the fold. I think Roth will be better at DE than OLB. I think DQJ, if they resign him, would better fit at the other OLB position.

I agree it won't really look that much better in a 3-4. Just don't agree that the switch creates more holes to fill. At worst it is the same project that was already there.

The FA market will be one of the nice things if CLE goes to a 4-3. It is far easier to find guys who fit and play well in that scheme than it is to find a 3-4 player.

Whether we stay in a 3-4 or switch to a 4-3 we need to upgrade the defensive line. It's just a matter of which type of player to draft or sign through FA that will fit the system.

That said, we have a bit too many guys on the down side of their careers (Bowens and Barton) or that underachieved (Rogers) that need to be cut loose. We do need to get younger on the defensive side of the ball. For that reason, we have a way to go to be contenders. There are just too many needs to fill on both sides of the ball in one offseason.

That said, we must show improvement in the won/loss record. This team must continue to build on last years draft.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Masters

Don't forget Gocong who is really a 4-3 LB and is already in the fold. I think Roth will be better at DE than OLB. I think DQJ, if they resign him, would better fit at the other OLB position.

I agree it won't really look that much better in a 3-4. Just don't agree that the switch creates more holes to fill. At worst it is the same project that was already there.

The FA market will be one of the nice things if CLE goes to a 4-3. It is far easier to find guys who fit and play well in that scheme than it is to find a 3-4 player.

I actually agree, it doesn't make more holes. But it makes EVERY POSITION on the defense a little worse. Every guy will have to go back to THINKING about his assignment instead of reacting which hopefully they would h ave been able to have been doing in year 3 of learning a system.

[golfer704u]

And let me state that I am not saying this can't be sucessful long term and turn out to be the begining of a great defense in Cleveland. But anyone that thinks it won't be an adjustment period this year that will directly lead to more losses is kidding themselves.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

And let me state that I am not saying this can't be sucessful long term and turn out to be the begining of a great defense in Cleveland. But anyone that thinks it won't be an adjustment period this year that will directly lead to more losses is kidding themselves.

Yep, and let's go ahead and line up the good ole cliches explaining the need for guys to come together and chemistry doesn't happen overnight.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Yep, and let's go ahead and line up the good ole cliches explaining the need for guys to come together and chemistry doesn't happen overnight.

On BOTH sides of the ball now not just one.

[YtownBacker]

All good points. Both defenses (3-4 or 4-3) works in the NFL. Working well has to do with weekly adjustments based on opponents, which is on the coaches and having the talent to run either defense.

IMO, talent trumps scheme any day. There are great 4-3 defenses and great 3-4 defenses. Getting the right people and putting them in the position to be successful is the trick.

That said, we have some basic talent up front, but we don't have a game changer no matter which defensive scheme we work out of.

[Masters]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

I actually agree, it doesn't make more holes. But it makes EVERY POSITION on the defense a little worse. Every guy will have to go back to THINKING about his assignment instead of reacting which hopefully they would h ave been able to have been doing in year 3 of learning a system.

Maybe. Typically the 3-4 requires a lot more thinking on the DL and LBs. Secondary assignments aren't much different between the systems. Man is man and zone is zone.

[PlaygroundLegend]

Is anyone else afraid if the fact that we dont have a startworthy 4-3 OLB on our roster? WE ARE SLOW AS FUDGE IN OUR LB CORE. 4-3 requires QUICK MLB's and OLB's that can cover sideline to sideline

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

And let me state that I am not saying this can't be sucessful long term and turn out to be the begining of a great defense in Cleveland. But anyone that thinks it won't be an adjustment period this year that will directly lead to more losses is kidding themselves.

Unfortunately, this won't prevent our first "fire the coach" campaign from beginning before the Ides of September. Practice makes perfect.

You watch, by next year at this time - we'll be trying to give the same voice of reason we spent the last year on with alot of the same people thinking the firing was all that was necessary for a 10-6 record this coming year.

Reality is injuries don't discriminate or work hand in hand with conveneince. Therefore if you don't draft good - you don't get a guy filling in capable of best football ahead. You end up with a St Clair who was supposed to ONLY play in an emergency situation. Against NE, our right side was Billy Yates RG and Pork Chop RT. That was a good enough tandem to be featured on the NFL Channel by Brian Baldinger with isolation shots of Yates drive blocking Brandon Spikes 14 yards straight back and just HUGE daylight for Hillis. I think Dan in Florida shared the Youtube video of it when Baldinger nick named the oline the Smashing Pumpkins. When somethign like that is good enough to feature on an elite team - we HAVE to ask ourselves what was different then.

Well, Yates got injured a week or so later vrs the Jets in the first half Womack, who was filling in for Pashos, now has to move to RG and here comes that St Clair guy starting again at RT. Not the same. Did anyone see what Orlando Pace looked like in Chicago last year when he was St Clair's age? Not nearly the SAME guy he used to be folks. That is TOO important of a position to just continue to be stuck with that scenario. In fairness, it's not like Heckert didn't sign Pashos to upgrade that spot. And as we saw vrs NE, Womack was a solid backup before he had to be the emergency RG for injury.

If I looked at Seattle's last season with Holmgren and drew the conclusion he SUCKS. I'd get swarmed with - his QB was injured as was his team, and they were stranded with old players. He went 4-12 so what did his brilliance accomplish under THIS circumstance? Oh, and btw - they were using the WCO. See how much it matters when there isn't a Jerry Rice and the starting QB can't stay healthy enough to play?

[PlaygroundLegend]

were going to line up what?

FuJita Jackson Gocong

Bernard Rogers Rubin Roth


Jackson and Gocong are the fastest LB's we have, Gocong, as philly found out and we found out, doesnt belong in a 4-3 OLB spot, he is a pure 3-4 SSMLB

Not to Mention in the 4-3, our depth chart would look like this

MLB: Jackson, Maivia

OLB: Gocong, Fujita, Trusnik

DE: Benard, Roth, WHO ELSE???

DT: Rogers, Rubin, Smith, Coleman


That is putrid, talk about players out of position? Talk about lack of depth at key positions?!?! Holy Moly