Mock it up.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

I think Alo has been impressed with Quinn 2.0 for a while now. Just search this board and I bet you find him talking about it.

Ironically I Googled Quinn up and the youtube video on there came from Alo. Here's Quinn taking advantage of an OT with very limited athletic ability. It's tough to put him up as high as #6 off a lame matchup like he had in the video. One thing that stood out was Quinn had trouble bringing ball carriers to the ground; and that's something OUR team needs to improve upon as we speak. His tackle height on many of those plays is shoulder pad high on the opponent. Not only that, I didn't see many, if any, text book tackles. Seemed like there was more grabbing than hitting with the shoulder, wrapping the arms and driving through the man. There's also an occasion North Carolina lined Quinn up a little wide like Mickey Andrews liked to do at FSU with alot of his best pass rushers. Sometimes that can provide a false positive. Besides Boulware, which one of FSU's DEs went on to justify all their predraft hype? The level of competition in that video never demanded that Quinn use anything but quickness. NFL tackles will dictate that he needs to have more than just quickness. Just ask Kam Wimbley.

I haven't seen enough of the Quinn to give a fair assessment. Sometimes the video collages of greatest hits in favorable matchups can overinflate our perceptions of a guy. I did it with Aaron Curry; and clearly he's nowhere near the talent level of Clay Matthews despite the greatest hit videos. Gotta be careful and this happens alot with the pass rushers or any position for that matter. Alot of people judged Colt McCoy off his matchup with Nebraska; because his biggest critics loved that matchup most. All kinds of Cindy Brady arm conclusions came out when the concept of stepping INTO the throws was unrealistic while he was being Suhed.

YouTube - Robert Quinn vs. Virginia ('09)

I'm not sold Quinn can offer us any more than Marcus Benard can. Well, maybe a little because there's a lot to work with. Then again, it's important to note I'm not a big fan of the ACC when college football is on television. VA Tech is always overrated as Stanford reminded us and the only other team in the conference remotely interesting is GA Tech with Paul Johnson's innovation. Besides that, I just got burned again last year falling for a player in the ACC (Spiller). My faves were Haden and Spiller in respresentation of both sides of the ball. I think Spiller is more of a victim that Marshawn Lynch became in Buffalo behind a bad oline. Lynch went out to Seattle and looked 10 times better so maybe there's more to be seen from Spiller. I get these draft picks wrong alot because I make too many judgement off of greatest moments more than I see if their current weaknesses can be ironed out at the next level. Therefore, don't be like me - be better than me when you're lookign at some of these guys folks.

[Solon16]

I'm not sold Quinn can offer us any more than Marcus Benard can. Well, maybe a little because there's a lot to work with. Then again, it's important to note I'm not a big fan of the ACC when college football is on television.

FUNNY....but Are you serious? Put the pipe down TOM! These are highlights from ONE game! One!

P.S. I hated spiller :P

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Solon16

I'm not sold Quinn can offer us any more than Marcus Benard can. Well, maybe a little because there's a lot to work with. Then again, it's important to note I'm not a big fan of the ACC when college football is on television.

FUNNY....but Are you serious? Put the pipe down TOM! These are highlights from ONE game! One!

P.S. I hated spiller :P

Come on Solon! LOL!

Did you understand the meaning of this statement?
"Alot of people judged Colt McCoy off his matchup with Nebraska; because his biggest critics loved that matchup most."

How about this one:
"Then again, it's important to note I'm not a big fan of the ACC when college football is on television."

Above all - I think this was me admitting I need my day job:
"I get these draft picks wrong alot because I make too many judgement off of greatest moments more than I see if their current weaknesses can be ironed out at the next level. Therefore, don't be like me - be better than me when you're lookign at some of these guys folks."

It IS only one game but which of his opponents will be starting at Left Tackle in the NFL? Which of them demanded anything beyond quickness from him? Show me a dream matchup that slam dunks he's not the next Kam Wimbley. Inventory Quinn's tackles on the video and count how many were text book leading with the shoulder pads and wrapping while driving through the man as opposed to grabbing and twisting/wrestling guys down to the ground. That kind of tackling is what we're trying to improve at the moment, like it or not.

Something tells me you're a huge Quinn fan unwilling to see the red flags. You weren't a Percy Harvin fan either where we were picking if memory serves me right; and he was a Rookie of the Year. I do better with the guys from Florida than I do when I go ACC. Maybe I'm learning from that trend. Haden was my defensive favorite where we were picking.

Hey, here's another video of another matchup where I'm not sold he'll be anything greater than Gaines Adams against the run vrs NFL caliber tackles. Whether or not the FSU Tackle ever starts at Left Tackle at the next level remains to be seen. Check out Quinn getting blocked very easily when FSU runs his way. Not impressed for a #6 overall consideration. There's weaknesses and flaws for those of you willing to see them. This would be like taking Kam Wimbley at #6 overall IMO. I'd be lying if I said I see the next Reggie White here. He's quick off the ball and I think there's more guys in the draft that will be quick off the ball and better vrs the run. Just out of curiosity, who's gonna waste their time throwing the ball on us if we can't defend the run and we suck at tackling? Nobody smart. Should we pay attention to where we've ranked statistically the last 12 years at stopping the run?

You Tube

[Solon16]

Originally Posted by Flugel

Come on Solon! LOL!

Did you understand the meaning of this statement?
"Alot of people judged Colt McCoy off his matchup with Nebraska; because his biggest critics loved that matchup most."

How about this one:
"Then again, it's important to note I'm not a big fan of the ACC when college football is on television."

Above all - I think this was me admitting I need my day job:
"I get these draft picks wrong alot because I make too many judgement off of greatest moments more than I see if their current weaknesses can be ironed out at the next level. Therefore, don't be like me - be better than me when you're lookign at some of these guys folks."

It IS only one game but which of his opponents will be starting at Left Tackle in the NFL? Which of them demanded anything beyond quickness from him? Show me a dream matchup that slam dunks he's not the next Kam Wimbley. Inventory Quinn's tackles on the video and count how many were text book leading with the shoulder pads and wrapping while driving through the man as opposed to grabbing and twisting/wrestling guys down to the ground. That kind of tackling is what we're trying to improve at the moment, like it or not.

Something tells me you're a huge Quinn fan unwilling to see the red flags. You weren't a Percy Harvin fan either where we were picking if memory serves me right; and he was a Rookie of the Year. I do better with the guys from Florida than I do when I go ACC. Maybe I'm learning from that trend. Haden was my defensive favorite where we were picking.

Hey, here's another video of another matchup where I'm not sold he'll be anything greater than Gaines Adams against the run vrs NFL caliber tackles. Whether or not the FSU Tackle ever starts at Left Tackle at the next level remains to be seen. Check out Quinn getting blocked very easily when FSU runs his way. Not impressed for a #6 overall consideration. There's weaknesses and flaws for those of you willing to see them. This would be like taking Kam Wimbley at #6 overall IMO. I'd be lying if I said I see the next Reggie White here. He's quick off the ball and I think there's more guys in the draft that will be quick off the ball and better vrs the run. Just out of curiosity, who's gonna waste their time throwing the ball on us if we can't defend the run and we suck at tackling? Nobody smart. Should we pay attention to where we've ranked statistically the last 12 years at stopping the run?

YouTube - Robert Quinn vs. Anthony Castonzo

ha ha ha...If Kam Wimbley was used as he should have been 4-3 DE he'd have been worth where we picked him IMO...Still liked Ngata back then and definetly said so...! If we switch to a 4-3 defense...DE is most important pick we can make...Quinn will be a stud...Book it!
P.S he was held 3 times imo in BC Video... Also if we switch to a 4-3...I'd draft all the available defensive players from UNC that I could....:P

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Greythan

Does anyone else read Quinn's scouting report and think "Wimbley"? All they seem to say is that he has a good outside, shoulder-dip pass rushing move..

Yes.

[Sez.EJ]

OK >>I'm gonna throw in my Mock..including Free agents.. I will try to be realistic here as I realize we cannot throw a ton of money at everyone. As I have said in prior posts.. Offense in Free agency..Defense in the draft.. I know free agency is a mixed bag..but when you have multiple massive holes to fill..little choice. The big money in Free agency will go on the top 2 WR's.. then RT..

WR.. 3 free agents: #1 WR Vincent Jackson, #2 WR.. Steve Breasont #3 WR, Legadu Naanee (Even Jackson and one of the other two guys make a huge difference (James Jones is the other option here) all young guys who can help Colt and be around for a while

RT: free agent Rashad Butler from Houston (27 yr old up and comer.. can hold down RT for years)

* Draft
Round 1.. DT/DE Nick Fairley
Round 2 Justin Houston OLB
Round3 Brandon Burton CB
Round4 Pierre Allen DE

BPA for the rest

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Solon16

ha ha ha...If Kam Wimbley was used as he should have been 4-3 DE he'd have been worth where we picked him IMO...Still liked Ngata back then and definetly said so...! If we switch to a 4-3 defense...DE is most important pick we can make...Quinn will be a stud...Book it!
P.S he was held 3 times imo in BC Video... Also if we switch to a 4-3...I'd draft all the available defensive players from UNC that I could....:P

Me too about Ngata back when Bunkley had more fans falling in love with his 1 gap strengths. I think Quinn is gonna be a liability against the run. It's right there on video if you want to see it. If we put guys like that on the field - nobody will need to throw the ball at us. Alot of our opponents CHOSE to run at Wimbley in his 2nd year and he flat out sucked so they kept on doing it.

If we move to a 4-3 and we're gonna go defense first at #6 - Quinn is NOT a better choice than Nick Fairley. Just watch any of Fairley's last 3 games against much competition than that ACC offered up for Quinn. If you're still arguing it's because you backed yourself into a corner. This front 7 needs to improve against the run or it'll never have to worry about the pass.

[Sez.EJ]

Flug's.. I'm with you all the way on beefing up the run defense. It's been pathetic for years.. We have had a good game here and there..but overall it's been the biggest weakness of the D.. since the return. I've been begging for top 3 picks on the DL for 9 years (since Gerrard Warren..our last high pick).. appears I will get my wish this year..It might not be #1..but certainly I will see a top 3 pick on the DL this year.. We been putting bandaids on it with F/O old journeyman.. time for an influx of youth and talent.. long overdue..

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

Flug's.. I'm with you all the way on beefing up the run defense. It's been pathetic for years.. We have had a good game here and there..but overall it's been the biggest weakness of the D.. since the return. I've been begging for top 3 picks on the DL for 9 years (since Gerrard Warren..our last high pick).. appears I will get my wish this year..It might not be #1..but certainly I will see a top 3 pick on the DL this year.. We been putting bandaids on it with F/O old journeyman.. time for an influx of youth and talent.. long overdue..

Thanks Sez! I really liked what you had to say. Step #1 in the right direction is narrowing us down to 3 starting LBers. Step #2 in the right direction is taking notice of how many offenses are starting to go no huddle to prevent all the 3rd down mass substitutions so we gotta snag the throwbacks that can handle all 3 downs. Step #3 is getting a difference maker inside so we can make more tackles behind the line of scrimmage to set setup favorable 2nd or 3rd and long situations. Those worrying about the next Big Money sandbagger in upper round 1 need to realize the new generations of round 1 will get alot of pay and future pay via performance. Fairley will have the on-going carrots dangling and your buddy Flugel adores that refreshing change.

If one is on the fence - consider this: what kind of difference has Mario Williams made to the Houston Texans since he arrived there 4-5 years ago? Have they ever won more than 8 games because he was just so awesome? What does his effect mean on a guy like Peyton Manning? Has he even taken over a game like Reggie White or Bruce Smith used to? He's a good player; but who's afraid of Houston's defense in the NFL? Was Mario a bigger difference than Osi Umenyura or the guy Riffer reminded me about Jared Allen? These guys don't need to be drafted in upper round 1 from what I've seen. Then there's Aaron Schobel that frequented Pro Bowls as a DE in Buffalo - he wasn't a first round draft pick. Rob Burnett drafted by us before the move made a few Pro Bowls in Baltimore. Burnett was a mid round pick as was Anthony Pleasant who was employed for more than a decade. There's plenty of very good DEs in this league that didn't need to be drafted in round 1. Tuck is another. Remember Mike McCrary? Where were Woodley, Harrison and Keisel all drafted? There's so many great pass rushers found by GOOD GMs after round 1.

For every T Suggs out there - there's plenty more guys like Gaines Adams, Eric Flowers, Huey Richardson, Eric Gholston and most of the Florida State disappointments. The Personnel gurus REALLY have to break out the film and know how good the competition is being faced or they get fooled on Florida State guy. Seen it enough to know it's a trend. We drafted Courtney Brown at #1 overall; and regardless of backpocket excuses we learned that Jamir Miller was a better natural pass rusher. We didn't understand this until another 911 call to injured reserve meant we needed a problem solve and pronto. And here's the very best year of Miller's career making the Pro Bowl with the sack volme we hoped Brown would bring with the exchange value of a #1 overall draft pick.

If we make a mistake in round 1 this year after all that's gone on - it's gonna be brutal. This pick is what many of us are holding onto for optimism. I started out wanting to see those highlights of Quinn. Unfortunately, the only good thing I saw from Quinn was quickness against 2 different guys that don't look like they'll ever be starting material for the NFL. Aaron Curry got WAY overinflated against competition like this and outside of D'Brick Ferguson - how many of these ACC blindside tackles are starting on Sundays (Walter Jones retired because he was drafted about 18 years ago)?

The film on Quinn shows me terrible tackling skills from the height of them to the technique. If people watch them in their entirety - they'll see exactly what I'm talking about because there's countless examples. OCs are gonna run the ball right down his esophagus behind their best athlete on the oline. Count on it. And he doesn't offer an upgrade to Roth or Coleman in defending the run. We'd basically be drafting another Marcus Benard at upper first round value when we remember that we didn't even have to draft Marcus Benard at all. Meaning? This kind of skill set can be found anywhere in the draft and anywhere shortly thereafter. If I'm being honest, I think Benard tackles better.

[Legacy Fan]

Man I watch those Quinn vids and all I want is that piece of garbage Marvin Austin.

Benard, Tuba, Austin, Roth would be a pretty kick ass front 4 imo.

[Sez.EJ]

I am really liking Fairley right now for us..can play dt or de.. Seems like a difference maker.. I like him in round 1 ...a LB round 2, ...CB round 3, ....and another DL guy in round 4.. (this is provided we address WR(s) in free agency and a young RT.. like the F/A from Houston or Tampa (names escape me right now)..

I hear what your saying about high picks..but someone has to be taken in the first round.. Fairley seems like the real dea. .. T

ruth of the matter is though... We have enough holes we can go BPA right down the line and still fill holes all over the place but for C and LT.. is there really anywhere we that we can say...no we don't need a playmaker in that spot?

I still say offense in free agency and Defense in the draft.. I'd rather get the experience on offense and eliminate the learning curve because we need to get some points on the board.. I am tired of having all our playmakers learning how to play in the nfl all at the same time. We need a veteran presence at WR to make plays, help Colt, and jumpstart our offense. .

Defensive guys seem to be better able to step in and play well right away..(seems like a smaller learning curve). Just my opinion, and that's the way I would go this offseason to get the biggest bang for our bucks.

[BernietheKid]

Originally Posted by Legacy Fan

Man I watch those Quinn vids and all I want is that piece of garbage Marvin Austin.

Benard, Tuba, Austin, Roth would be a pretty kick ass front 4 imo.

I second that notion especially in Round 2. Mayock says scouts ham him going from rounds 2-5. If we could get him that would be huge because he can really get up field with the 3 technique and Rubin could play the 1.