Berns on the Outs?

[Enigmatic Evil]

Guys I hope I don't need to ask cooler heads to prevail here... maybe I should've stopped by a little sooner but anyway.

A coach, a captain, a general, a leader, they are only as good as those that are playing for them, fighting for them, following them, etc. The Browns need to build upon what is laid out as far as the ground work of this team is concerned. I made the points in my GB thread but really, you look at that team. They had 4-5 years of GOOD consecutive drafting to back them up. Their first round draft picks have paid dividends and they have build a winning team off of that.

Is Shurmer destined to fail? I don't know that's a kind of pessimism I do not feel comfortable delving into.

I think we need to turn the corner here and everyone is aware of that.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Mike McCarthy just won Super Bowl 45. Go check his performance as an OC prior to being hired in GB. You want to talk about Shurmur and his 2 seasons in St Louis? Go search where he was prior, and who worked with him.

I can find something negative or positive in every single coach out there that was hired for all 32 teams. And their position coaches. Thing is Mike Holmgren, Tom Heckert and Gil Haskell have a blueprint and they're hiring accordingly. I just went through 4-12, 5-11 and 5-11 seasons, and I've got guys up top building it one way, the way they've had success with in the past. It's called a track record. Unlike Eric, who I've no doubt had and still have a tremendous amount of respect for, but he didn't get it done.

You want to investigate every coach and debate their merits? Go ahead. I'm not doing that. I'm not saying I know the plan, I'm saying their is a history, a track record, on my side of the debate. What do you have besides angst?

I see you're afraid to search the board for all the times I took offense when people had knee jerk reactions to Mangini in 09-10. Now you're on the other end of it so I'm the bad guy. Nobody handles sitting where I am better then me. I'm not here for the cliques or the echo chamber.

Once again. A nice flowy post filled with.

"I trust in my lord and savior Mike Holmgren"

I hope your trust is fullfilled.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Mike McCarthy just won Super Bowl 45. Go check his performance as an OC prior to being hired in GB. You want to talk about Shurmur and his 2 seasons in St Louis? Go search where he was prior, and who worked with him.

You almost make it too easy.....

After the Packers released the entire coaching staff following the 1999 season, McCarthy became the offensive coordinator of the New Orleans Saints . He would remain in that position for five seasons and was selected as NFC Assistant Coach of the Year by USA Today in 2000.

Did I miss Shurmur being named AFC Assistant Coach of the year?

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by golfer704u

You almost make it too easy.....

Sure, and just prior to taking the HC job with Green Bay, he was OC for the SF 49ers, who ranked dead last in offense. The point is you don't have to just hire someone based on their performance as an OC (see Josh McDaniels) to predict their success as a HC.

I don't think Holmgren or Heckert are infallible or gods. I just don't think this hiring and the systems they're running is a life or death proposition. I am not the one jumping for joy and rubbing people's noses in the firing of Mangini. I didn't do back flips over dumping him. I have stated all along that Holmgren and Heckert have many reasons why they made the change, and I suppose some of those reasons came out in the recent remarks my Heckert.

Heckert (on how a running team can only have 2 RB's): "I don't know how to answer that one. I think [the RB depth] was good for a while. When we had Peyton, Jerome and a couple of other guys here, we were OK. But once Eric wanted us to get rid of Jerome, that's when it started [going bad]. Once you get rid of that guy then it's just tough to find guys."

Heckert: (On why Jayme Mitchell was signed but never played) "He was by far our best pass rusher and never got on the field, so I can't answer that one," Heckert said. "Eric watched him [on tape prior to the trade] and Eric liked him. So I don't know what happened after that. He's a nickel pass rusher on third down. We thought he could really rush the passer."

"The guys we loaded up on are guys we kind of liked and those guys are still going to be here," Heckert said. "Why we didn't use them? That question I can't answer."

It's called not being on the same page. There certainly is 2 sides to every story, and not every GM picks players with the expectations the HC will sit them. But just those two answers to some questions leads me to believe Heckert was not a huge fan of the way Mangini managed the roster, or the playing time of his players.

Wasn't just about the 10-22 record. They is a lot more to this firing.

And probably correlates well as to why they hired Shurmur.