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[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

In a 4-3, he's a LDE... not really a position often drafted that high. Chris Long's inability to beat left tackles in the NFL has made him a dud #1 overall... and moved him to LDE.

The Browns will need a guy at RDE who can get double digit sacks year after year. You wouldn't draft J.J. Watt to do that. The average RDE is about 6'3" and 263. Watt is 292 and doesn't get to the passer all that much.

Watt will be drafted by a 3-4 team and not in the top 10.

Not sure why you keep bringing him up at RDE, I have never said that. He can play pretty much anywhere on the line, but I have him pegged as the LDE and have stated that more than a few times with examples of what a 5/6 technique C gapper does at LDE and how important it is.

You are getting more and more consumed with this RDE stuff by the minute. There are plenty of other positions on defense that are important too, but I have a feeling that ship has sailed with getting you to understand that at this point.

Just a week ago you were adamant about the Browns having to take a WR there at six and it would be ludicrous for them not to. People told you not to get your heart all wrapped around that too much or it might get broken. Looks like you may want to think about this RDE thing in the same fashion.

[Brown Warrior]

I'm not sure what you mean, Riff. You tossed off a couple things: What don't I understand? I've said (as have several draftnicks) that Watt is best served as a 3-4 DE. He's not an edge rusher or a DT, which puts him at LDE in a 4-3, not really a spot drafted in the top 10-15... or even the first round for most teams.

When 4-3 teams draft DL high up, it's usually a rush end or an under tackle with the former being the more likely of the two.

If the Browns do go defense at #6, it's likely to be a guy who can get to the passer, like Quinn, or an under tackle like Fairley (not gonna be there) or Dareus (might be there).

Anyway... that's why I don't think J.J. Watt is going to the Browns, period. I think the chances of us picking Watt or either corner are beneath minuscule.

My humble opinion.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

I'm not sure what you mean, Riff. You tossed off a couple things: What don't I understand? I've said (as have several draftnicks) that Watt is best served as a 3-4 DE. He's not an edge rusher or a DT, which puts him at LDE in a 4-3, not really a spot drafted in the top 10-15... or even the first round for most teams.

When 4-3 teams draft DL high up, it's usually a rush end or an under tackle with the former being the more likely of the two.

If the Browns do go defense at #6, it's likely to be a guy who can get to the passer, like Quinn, or an under tackle like Fairley (not gonna be there) or Dareus (might be there).

Anyway... that's why I don't think J.J. Watt is going to the Browns, period. I think the chances of us picking Watt or either corner are beneath minuscule.

My humble opinion.

I think JJ Watt gives you basically what a Matt Roth would. Now, Watt may have a bit more upside and I love him as a pure football player, he isn't my pick at #6.

With taht said, A pass rusher like Quinn is very attractive but so is a 3 technique DT and a shutdown corner. All three are priority positions in a Jauron 4-3 defense. Rhodes and Jauron don't rely on their front 4 to bring all the pressure like some 4-3 system teams do. Jauron likes to bring pressure up the middle to collapse the pocket and likes to bring LBs and SSs off the edge. His DEs need to be stout and very solid against the run. To run that style of defense he needs corners who can play in man coverage. If he has to play a cover 2 defense because his corners can't handle the WRs in man then his defense tends to get real boring.

What he does like to do is shut down the run and make teams throw the ball against him. That also make the MLB position very critical.

[Brown Warrior]

Interesting stuff, Y. I wonder which of the current 4-3 defenses looks the most like what we can expect from Jauron. His last stop was Philly... and they have an excellent RDE in Trent Coles who's run up like 44 sacks the last four years. I know Jauron didn't design that D, but it feels like we're connected to the Eagles in a lot of ways.

I've just been looking at 4-3 defenses around the league -- Colts, Jags, Giants, Bears, Seahawks, Falcons, Eagles, and so on -- getting a grip on what they do and who they use.

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

I think JJ Watt gives you basically what a Matt Roth would. Now, Watt may have a bit more upside and I love him as a pure football player, he isn't my pick at #6.

With taht said, A pass rusher like Quinn is very attractive but so is a 3 technique DT and a shutdown corner. All three are priority positions in a Jauron 4-3 defense. Rhodes and Jauron don't rely on their front 4 to bring all the pressure like some 4-3 system teams do. Jauron likes to bring pressure up the middle to collapse the pocket and likes to bring LBs and SSs off the edge. His DEs need to be stout and very solid against the run. To run that style of defense he needs corners who can play in man coverage. If he has to play a cover 2 defense because his corners can't handle the WRs in man then his defense tends to get real boring.

What he does like to do is shut down the run and make teams throw the ball against him. That also make the MLB position very critical.

[Sez.EJ]

We don't HAVE to have a RDE who's a sackmaster..What matters is the total sacks as a team..If your top 10 in sacks who cares.. just so long as your winning in the process. If your focusing on that you are missing the big picture.. there is more to a RDE than sacks.. unless all your interested in is stats and not winning championships..

In the past many of Jauron's LB's contribute with sacks on various packages.and DL guys contribute evenly in sacks.. Some years more than others of course.. Fact is, We need guys who can stop the run FIRST..we suck... THEN rush the passer..If we cannot stop the run..no one will even need to pass..Just look where we end up vs the run year in..year out.. near the bottom.