Cleveland Browns quarterback Colt McCoy already learning Pat Shurmur's offense

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

I agree 100% that it is more about players and their ability to execute then coaches and their systems. That's why I can't see all the negative about the new coaching staff.

Or the previous coaching staff Ytown. I sincerely doubt there's any Browns' fans rooting against Shurmur. We're just not wired that way or we wouldn't be here daily thinking about this team improving. That said, there are quite a few fans that don't understand why we only want to begin to be fair today.

The last staff was given 1 good draft in a division where the top 2 teams have TONS of talented players in the 22 they field for offense and defense. If we add injuries to our 22 that was already desperately needing playmakers/earthshakers, how can they compete with teams like Baltimore and Pitt who have been stringing together 1 good draft after a another since 2000?

In a perfect world, we're not gonna be reading our first fire the coach post in September. It looks like we have quite a few people gearing up for the draft; and I imagine others will as it gets closer. I REALLY enjoyed reading the article that kicked this thread off. 2 very hard working guys that have landed in their dream careers. These are the types I LIKE to root for.

[Inspecta]

Flugel, I have to agree with you. As Browns fans we're so die hard, they could hire Adolf 2.0, and we'd be extolling his virtues of being able to motivate large groups of men to swift and immediate action.

I think there's gonna be a large group of us that until Shurmur shows us something on Sundays will always be lamenting the fact we let Mangini go. That's just the way it is. But as a wise man once said, "Winning cures all" and a winning record, or hell even a .500 season would go a long way squash those lingering regrets. However we have to get out of this mind set that if a coach doesn't come in and turn around the ship in 18 mo or less then he must not be any good. The Sean Peyton and Ken Wisenhunts of the world have been the worst thing to happen to Cleveland, because we now all believe that if somehow we just find the right coach we'll turn it around in one year, and if we don't turn it around in one year then they must not be the "right" guy

[YtownBacker]

Again I agree. It's not a perfect world, it's the NFL.

First, FO and staff have to be on the same page. Maybe not the same tree but in the same section of the woods. Second, you have to win. It might not be fair but Mangini didn't win and he wasn't from the same tree or even the same forest.

It is what it is. The boss makes the rules and hires who he wants. If you aren't related to the new boss then you better be damn good because you have to know he is chomping at the bit to bring in his own guys.

As we have said, I think it's more about the players also. With that, there was enough talent on this team to win more then 5 games and it didn't get done. Sorry, but back to back 5-11's and you are out in this new NFL (unless you are the new bosses hand picked guy, then you may get a pass for year #3).

Ciao

[Enigmatic Evil]

See I am in the camp that believes that Mangini lost his job for a reason. I will not refute that he did an excellent job of turning this team around. Taking the carnage that was the locker room that he inherited and really turned it into something he could call his own. He won the players over and they played hard for him.

I'm rooting for Shurmur because I like what I've heard from him so far, and what I've seen him do (Like rallying Colt and helping him become more prepared in the event of the lockout). I think that... well no, I HOPE that Holmgren will give Shurmur the TIME necessary to do what is needed to turn this team around... YES time he could have given Mangini but this is NOT the debate for that I guess I'm just kicking a man while he's down

A lot of fans do not acknowledge how broken the team is, and has been for over a decade now. It takes time to right the ship and I know it sucks that we have had to watch what happened over the course of the 2010 season lead up to what has happened in the off-season but one way or the other it is sort of a neccesary evil...

Okay I've veered way off topic. My main point is this: We have a solid front office in place and I think our team is ready to grow. Hopefully we can bring in some key elements in the draft to help the team continue to grow. I truly believe the best is yet to come and hopefully it can be Shurmur that can help this about so we can stop with the Head Coach carousel.

Originally Posted by Inspecta

Flugel, I have to agree with you. As Browns fans we're so die hard, they could hire Adolf 2.0, and we'd be extolling his virtues of being able to motivate large groups of men to swift and immediate action.

I think there's gonna be a large group of us that until Shurmur shows us something on Sundays will always be lamenting the fact we let Mangini go. That's just the way it is. But as a wise man once said, "Winning cures all" and a winning record, or hell even a .500 season would go a long way squash those lingering regrets. However we have to get out of this mind set that if a coach doesn't come in and turn around the ship in 18 mo or less then he must not be any good. The Sean Peyton and Ken Wisenhunts of the world have been the worst thing to happen to Cleveland, because we now all believe that if somehow we just find the right coach we'll turn it around in one year, and if we don't turn it around in one year then they must not be the "right" guy

I did not know this about Jauron. I think Shaun Rogers was one of the big disappointments of last season. One of the first things that came about after Holmgren was brought on board was the "chat" he had with Rogers where he laid his expectations out on the table. He expected Rogers to step up and I think that a lot of people would agree with me when I say he did not.

I would love to see Jauron light a fire under Rogers and maybe get him back to a point where we can all watch him play and say "THIS... This is the athlete we expected when we brought Rogers over a few seasons ago."

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

To piggyback on the Shurmur reaching out to Colt and this staff engaging with the players. While the site was down I read where Jauron has reached out to Rogers about whether he wants to play for the Browns and him next year. Jauron was Rogers's DC when he can into the league with the Lions and Rogers was selected to a pro bowl under Jauron. They have a good history and if Rogers can be led back from the dark side, it may be Jauron who could do it.

I wish I could find the article now because it did have some info in there about the team wanting Rogers to redo his contract. Same money but incentive based.

[pl4tinum]

I think as long as we don't overpay Rogers we'll be making the right decision to keep him. HE does change games, even in limited snaps.

[Brown Warrior]

I think we're set at DT with the primary rotation being Rubin, Rogers, and Shaefering. And it's very good.

My favorite f/a signing would probably be Chad Greenway to go with DQJ and Fujita. I'd probably keep Gocong and draft a linebacker in round 3-ish.

I think we'll have to find a 4-3 DE in free agency and draft another in round 2. Right now I like Jabaal Sheard there.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

I think we're set at DT with the primary rotation being Rubin, Rogers, and Shaefering. And it's very good.

My favorite f/a signing would probably be Chad Greenway to go with DQJ and Fujita. I'd probably keep Gocong and draft a linebacker in round 3-ish.

I think we'll have to find a 4-3 DE in free agency and draft another in round 2. Right now I like Jabaal Sheard there.

I wouldn't count on Rogers being part of that rotation. Jauron has reached out to him but Rogers doesn't seem inclined to redo his contract which calls for 5.5 million. Rogers may be beyond the point of wanting to get in shape and play inspired football. this team definitely needs another DT that can push the pocket and get some pass rush up the middle. Rogers is too iffy to bet your money on. That's why Cleveland wants to resign him to a incentive laden contract and not a show up and we will pay you contract. Someone like Marvin Austin at DT would be nice.

I'd love Greenway and/or Stephen Tulloch. since we are dreamin let's throw in Jason Bobin or Charles Johnson as DEs.

[5150k9]

I feel that my optimism comes from Heckert, I feel that we have a real GM who knows talent and what his team needs. Our last draft has produced more starters I feel then any draft we had since 1999. I could be wrong and if I am I'm sure you guys will let me know. IMHO everything revolves around talent and the draft, look at the 2 superbowl teams, half their staff was drafted. Thats what makes a good team. We have a GM that will draft talent built for this coaching staff. I am looking forward to what the potential is, but we need patience and this wont be done in 1 year...

[Legendary]

Let say if there is a lock out and could this means

we will play NFL 2012 season with new draft choice from 2011 and 2012 ? So potentially there will be a dozen college boys joining every team. am I right or wrong.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Legendary

Let say if there is a lock out and could this means

we will play NFL 2012 season with new draft choice from 2011 and 2012 ? So potentially there will be a dozen college boys joining every team. am I right or wrong.

I couldn't see the whole season wiped out with no CBA. I'd think at some point there just is too much money for either party to lose if they stay out. So, I could see a shortened season or limited preseason and training camp which would be the worst thing for teams like us with new coaching staffs and new systems to put in place.

In that case, 2012 draft would go by season record as usual.

Another big problem for us is that if there is a lock out and it's lengthy then there won't be any trades or FA. Kind of sucks when you are looking for players to fit a new defense and you are stuck with square pegs.

[nickers]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

See I am in the camp that believes that Mangini lost his job for a reason. I will not refute that he did an excellent job of turning this team around. Taking the carnage that was the locker room that he inherited and really turned it into something he could call his own. He won the players over and they played hard for him.

If he really won the players over and if they really played hard for him...They wouldnt have a piss poor record and EM would still be here...Im not buying it.

[Brown Warrior]

Look, I feel like this is played out, but let's agree on this: Mangini's a football guy and he'd tell you that NFL success is measured in a consistent and simple way: wins and losses. The bottom line is the bottom line.

And going from 5-11 ending with a 4-game winning streak to 5-11 ending with a 4-game losing streak isn't progress, no matter how much lipstick you put on that pig, like changes in culture or being less hated than before or whatever. It's at best stagnant.