Its official-No OC

[Brown Warrior]

Seems like the right place for this: My favorite guy at OBR, their draft expert "Sobo," Bret Sobleski, really likes what Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur have done with the staff.

Main reason: Mangini came in as a defensive minded HC, and logic dictated that he should hire an experienced and forceful OC to run that side of the ball while he, Mangini, focused on the defense. He did precisely the opposite, turning the offense over to Daboll while snagging Ryan for the D.

As a result, Mangini seemed to talk more about offense than defense, which is kind of like me talking Latin. It's not his thing. The way he perceives and manages the QB position is goofy to the ninth.

This time around, Shurmur is an offensive guy, so he hires long-time guru Dick Jauron to run the defense. And as if that isn't enough, toss in Ray Rhodes on that side of the ball, too. Both have been head coaches... hell, even coach of the year. They can handle things over there.

Like Haley in KC, Shurmur will be calling the plays. Last year, Haley made the mistake of hiring a powerful and opinionated HC in Charlie Weis. This year, he elevated the line coach to HC and came close to saying he's not REALLY the OC... Haley is. That's clunky. Why give a guy the title when it isn't real?

What the Browns have done with Shurmur is allow the rookie HC to focus on what he knows, the offense. He'll have Whipple to concentrate on McCoy, and Whipple has a pretty great track record at nurturing. He'll have Mike Wilson for the WRs, a mature and experienced WRC with tons of playing experience. And most importantly, he'll have the Godfather of the WCO and his right hand man (Holmgren and Haskell) at his disposal, and neither will be as hands-off or awkward about their involvement now.

[Greythan]

It all sounds good. Just like it always does.

I'm so past getting excited about the next coaching staff. I'll simply be cautiously optimistic and look for the proof in the pudding come Sunday's next fall.

Sorry.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Seems like the right place for this: My favorite guy at OBR, their draft expert "Sobo," Bret Sobleski, really likes what Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur have done with the staff.

Main reason: Mangini came in as a defensive minded HC, and logic dictated that he should hire an experienced and forceful OC to run that side of the ball while he, Mangini, focused on the defense. He did precisely the opposite, turning the offense over to Daboll while snagging Ryan for the D.

As a result, Mangini seemed to talk more about offense than defense, which is kind of like me talking Latin. It's not his thing. The way he perceives and manages the QB position is goofy to the ninth.

This time around, Shurmur is an offensive guy, so he hires long-time guru Dick Jauron to run the defense. And as if that isn't enough, toss in Ray Rhodes on that side of the ball, too. Both have been head coaches... hell, even coach of the year. They can handle things over there.

Like Haley in KC, Shurmur will be calling the plays. Last year, Haley made the mistake of hiring a powerful and opinionated HC in Charlie Weis. This year, he elevated the line coach to HC and came close to saying he's not REALLY the OC... Haley is. That's clunky. Why give a guy the title when it isn't real?

What the Browns have done with Shurmur is allow the rookie HC to focus on what he knows, the offense. He'll have Whipple to concentrate on McCoy, and Whipple has a pretty great track record at nurturing. He'll have Mike Wilson for the WRs, a mature and experienced WRC with tons of playing experience. And most importantly, he'll have the Godfather of the WCO and his right hand man (Holmgren and Haskell) at his disposal, and neither will be as hands-off or awkward about their involvement now.

As Riffer ONCE, excuse me -THRICE posted, Mangini had a willignness to make Shurmur a finalist for the OC job in NY. All Holmgren had to say was "remember your intuition to make Shurmur a finalist for the OC job in NY - well let's go get him to run the offense that would make you a more successful Head Coach here." As it's been pointed out countless times, there was an enormous level of respect between Mangini and Holmgren. If there was ALREADY a previous interest in Shurmur by Mangini, I'm not understanding what would have been so difficult or square peg for round hole here. Seems like the OBR wouldn't have had the juicy spin with that part of the truth.

[grumpy_dinosaur]

Originally Posted by Flugel

As Riffer ONCE, excuse me -THRICE posted, Mangini had a willignness to make Shurmur a finalist for the OC job in NY. All Holmgren had to say was "remember your intuition to make Shurmur a finalist for the OC job in NY - well let's go get him to run the offense that would make you a more successful Head Coach here." As it's been pointed out countless times, there was an enormous level of respect between Mangini and Holmgren. If there was ALREADY a previous interest in Shurmur by Mangini, I'm not understanding what would have been so difficult or square peg for round hole here. Seems like the OBR wouldn't have had the juicy spin with that part of the truth.

That's all fine and dandy Tom, if that was the only issue they had. While it was obviously the largest, it's pretty clear from that interview with Heckert that there were other issues which led to Mangini's dismissal, for instance certain personnel decisions.

[Brown Warrior]

Not sure if it's juicy but it was a really smart observation by Sobo. WHY did Mangini pick Daboll, a guy who worked on his Jets staff? I can't really say. Shurmur went with Spags, a guy he worked with for the Eagles, which also makes sense.

Point is, Daboll was obviously Mangini's hire, someone he knew well. It happened pretty damn fast, too. And I think it was a very bad idea.

Originally Posted by Flugel

As Riffer ONCE, excuse me -THRICE posted, Mangini had a willignness to make Shurmur a finalist for the OC job in NY. All Holmgren had to say was "remember your intuition to make Shurmur a finalist for the OC job in NY - well let's go get him to run the offense that would make you a more successful Head Coach here." As it's been pointed out countless times, there was an enormous level of respect between Mangini and Holmgren. If there was ALREADY a previous interest in Shurmur by Mangini, I'm not understanding what would have been so difficult or square peg for round hole here. Seems like the OBR wouldn't have had the juicy spin with that part of the truth.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by grumpy_dinosaur

That's all fine and dandy Tom, if that was the only issue they had. While it was obviously the largest, it's pretty clear from that interview with Heckert that there were other issues which led to Mangini's dismissal, for instance certain personnel decisions.

That's a very good point I haven't given much consideration. I need to stop getting distracted with all that so something like that helps me more than you know.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Flugel

All Holmgren had to say was "remember your intuition to make Shurmur a finalist for the OC job in NY - well let's go get him to run the offense that would make you a more successful Head Coach here."

So what you're saying is we have a president, asst to the president, a GM and a hypothetical OC working with a head coach that doesn't talk the same language? Then you want to have the head coach interact with the signing, drafting and trading of players for the offense even though the 4 other guys know more than the coach? You don't see a set up of disaster in deliberating players for this offense?

Then you have to consider that the offense was not the only reason Mangini was let go. Heckert basically threw Eric under the bus for not keeping Harrison.

There was more to this firing - as I have said all along - then just the failings of a 32nd and 29th ranked offense. Much more.

If you think this is just a simple case of switching out OC, you're naieve and a little simplistic.

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Seems like the right place for this: My favorite guy at OBR, their draft expert "Sobo," Bret Sobleski, really likes what Holmgren/Heckert/Shurmur have done with the staff.

Main reason: Mangini came in as a defensive minded HC, and logic dictated that he should hire an experienced and forceful OC to run that side of the ball while he, Mangini, focused on the defense. He did precisely the opposite, turning the offense over to Daboll while snagging Ryan for the D.

As a result, Mangini seemed to talk more about offense than defense, which is kind of like me talking Latin. It's not his thing. The way he perceives and manages the QB position is goofy to the ninth.

This time around, Shurmur is an offensive guy, so he hires long-time guru Dick Jauron to run the defense. And as if that isn't enough, toss in Ray Rhodes on that side of the ball, too. Both have been head coaches... hell, even coach of the year. They can handle things over there.

Like Haley in KC, Shurmur will be calling the plays. Last year, Haley made the mistake of hiring a powerful and opinionated HC in Charlie Weis. This year, he elevated the line coach to HC and came close to saying he's not REALLY the OC... Haley is. That's clunky. Why give a guy the title when it isn't real?

What the Browns have done with Shurmur is allow the rookie HC to focus on what he knows, the offense. He'll have Whipple to concentrate on McCoy, and Whipple has a pretty great track record at nurturing. He'll have Mike Wilson for the WRs, a mature and experienced WRC with tons of playing experience. And most importantly, he'll have the Godfather of the WCO and his right hand man (Holmgren and Haskell) at his disposal, and neither will be as hands-off or awkward about their involvement now.

Really really nice post Shep. A++ I am a fan of Sobo too and his take on our coaching staff is on the money. I think Shurur has done an amazing job putting this staff together..You mentioned 2 former head coaches on defense..those 2 plus one more have been DC's.. so we have three guys who have been DC's on our defensive staff...amazing. Shurmur is in his element running the offense.. I really like it..