Worthy of Its Own Thread: Browns-Lions for Bradford??

[AdaM]

Finally some intelligence on this issue, thanks JJ.

[ramrod]

Originally Posted by jason j

But, what value is your 6'4" 235 lb. quarterback if he's on the sideline with his arm in a sling?

He got hurt one time, jj. He tried to come back to fast and reinjured the same shoulder. Now that its healed he should be fine. If that was the case the Saints should NOT have spent all that money to get Brees after a much serious injury to his shoulder. Saying that is like saying I "could" die today so let me be extra careful today.

[jason j]

Originally Posted by ramrod

I guess thats the only thing that I worry about as well, is getting under center. Alot of college teams are switching to that offense and we will see more QB's come out that way. Hell the NFL is gradually going to the shotgun more and more. Me personally I think that he has the head for it and Im sure he will practice his ass off to be a good one under center, with his talent I dont worry (to much) about the transition.

So you're saying that you would put him in the 17-25 range because of why? Injuries? He injured his shoulder once and then tried to come back to quick. Before that he was never injured and very well could have been the #1 overall pick last year, after that unreal season he had in 2008.

Just the accuracy/intangables alone net him in the top 10 and yes, because you are a QB in a QB driven league you should be more valuable. A good QB is by far more valuable than a CB or Safety IMO. Normally you dont get to the playoffs with a good CB. While the Jets made it this year and can prove me wrong, they could of very well not been in the playoffs, hell their coach thought they were mathematically out. But look at that CB from the Raiders that I wont even try to spell.

If you have a great QB you should always be in the playoffs and challenging for the super bowl. Even though McNabb never won one, he turned that organization around and made the playoffs how many years? Took them to the NFC championship how many times? Also took them to the super bowl. That has ALOT to do with him. Sure their are other pieces but hes been there for a while and seen alot of people come and go and they are still always in the hunt.

THey might say that 95% of people say that he has a "chance" at being a good one because they cover their ass, what Im saying is if 95% of people are syaing that then he must be good. But hell, you're right, you never know but if you dont shoot you dont score. This position happens to be the highest risk highest award that their is and thats why the value on them goes way up. Id bet hes going to be a very good to great one and I would take a chance for sure. Even if we have to move up. Im also a betting man.

Good points to be sure. But you're also illuminating some very real contributors to quarterback prospects being over-valued.

You said, "Me personally I think that he has the head for it and Im sure he will practice his ass off to be a good one under center." Based on what? There is scant little information available.

Don't get me wrong, he seems like a bright kid. But you just don't know how he's going to react.

I rate him 17-25 because of the injury issues, a middle of the road arm, and his lack of experience under center. He's face little adversity in his college career. And I don't know how well he can take a punch.

I'm not a doctor, but I am extremely cautious about kids who get injured in routine contact. When you see a guy get tackled, take the weight of the defender as would happen on any number of plays - and come up with a separated shoulder. It's not like this was a fluke hit, a' la Drew Brees. You know where the arm gets hung up and twisted in nine directions. This was simply taking the weight of the defender.

I have the same fear about collar bones. Again, I'm not a doctor. But it's been my experience when guys take what looks like a routine shot, and break a collarbone, you can bet it's not the last time you're going to see that. Same is true of shoulder separations. They tend to recur. Stingers, concussions, I can go on.

Truth be told, I had him rated Top 15 last season, prior to the injury, and the highest rated quarterback on my board. So, you can blame the bulk of my change of opinion on the injury. As a side note, I also had him as the only quarterback worthy of a 1st round pick, so there you go. You would've had to lock me in a closet on draft day to get any team of mine to draft Sanchez or Stafford above #20 overall.

-jj

[Shep]

Originally Posted by jason j

Of course we disagree... except for the part about smart accurate quarterbacks falling from trees. I agree they are freaking rare. And I hope you didn't misunderstand me, fixing accuracy is hard, fixing the spiral release is relatively easy, by comparison.

But, what value is your 6'4" 235 lb. quarterback if he's on the sideline with his arm in a sling? What if he never adjusts to the pro game? Smart doesn't mean you can process in 3 dimensions to the level it takes to be an NFL quarterback.

And we've been round and round on this. But suffice to say that I'm suspicious of Bradford translating to the NFL. I have him in the bottom half of the first rounders, so it's not like I think he's worthless. But 6 years, $70 million, with $40 million guaranteed, I'll pass.

-jj

Cool. I've been a Bradford fan for a few years now and looked forward to seeing him in the NFL. Assuming the shoulder's right, I'm all for it.

That last paragraph, minus a few million, is how I feel about drafting a corner at #7, more or less.

[ramrod]

Originally Posted by jason j

Good points to be sure. But you're also illuminating some very real contributors to quarterback prospects being over-valued.

You said, "Me personally I think that he has the head for it and Im sure he will practice his ass off to be a good one under center." Based on what? There is scant little information available.

Don't get me wrong, he seems like a bright kid. But you just don't know how he's going to react.

I rate him 17-25 because of the injury issues, a middle of the road arm, and his lack of experience under center. He's face little adversity in his college career. And I don't know how well he can take a punch.

I'm not a doctor, but I am extremely cautious about kids who get injured in routine contact. When you see a guy get tackled, take the weight of the defender as would happen on any number of plays - and come up with a separated shoulder. It's not like this was a fluke hit, a' la Drew Brees. You know where the arm gets hung up and twisted in nine directions. This was simply taking the weight of the defender.

I have the same fear about collar bones. Again, I'm not a doctor. But it's been my experience when guys take what looks like a routine shot, and break a collarbone, you can bet it's not the last time you're going to see that. Same is true of shoulder separations. They tend to recur. Stingers, concussions, I can go on.

Truth be told, I had him rated Top 15 last season, prior to the injury, and the highest rated quarterback on my board. So, you can blame the bulk of my change of opinion on the injury. As a side note, I also had him as the only quarterback worthy of a 1st round pick, so there you go. You would've had to lock me in a closet on draft day to get any team of mine to draft Sanchez or Stafford above #20 overall.

-jj

Right on. Very good points, jj. I guess it boils down to difference of opinion. Are you a defensive coach by the way?

[jason j]

Originally Posted by ramrod

Right on. Very good points, jj. I guess it boils down to difference of opinion. Are you a defensive coach by the way?

Generally, yes. But, like most coaches, I work both sides of the ball at the position level. But I haven't called an offensive game in years.

-jj

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by Shep

Seriously? We need positional threads now?

Dude, read it or don't read it. But stop dropping in to express your corrosive disdain all the time.

SHEP:
Your the one who started the thread ..claiming it was " worthy "... now your upset cuz i disagree.. I was expecting some exceptional news you were posting, but it seems just more pre-draft gossip which seemed to me it could have gone in any of the other QB threads for the most part..

If you want to post a thread...JUST POST IT..but don't "qualify" it as "WORTHY" ..

Oh, by the way... I was not the ONLY person who said it was not worthy..

I can have disdain for drafting a QB #1 if I darned well please..I am vehemently opposed to a qb in the first round.. and can state that over and over the same as you can pimp that spot over and over.. .. Sorry you are so unhappy I disagree with your position..

Seriously... Shep we often AGREE on many things in our posts.. just not a qb in the first round..so don't act like I am seeking you out to attack you or something..

I would not have even mentioned the " unworthy" thing if you had no "qualified" your thread in the title in that manner. So you brought it upon yourself..

Defense in round 1, RB, WR.. just no QB.. maybe later on.. but not in the 1st. PEACE!!!