Is the Top 6 Coming Into Focus?

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Prior to the lockout I heard that Jauron and Rhodes got offseason workouts to some to the guys and Bernard is said to be working on his strength while putting on some weight.

That said, he still doesn't play the run well and might not ever be a 3 down DE. A guy like Watt or better yet some of the bigger DEs that will be there in round two would be perfect fits to play outside and move inside on passing downs and bring Bernard in at DE.

Yeah, but if we use the "rush end" philosophy like Atlanta, Indy, and Minnesota, where the RDE basically attacks the edge every play and heads for the backfield... Benard might be able to be that guy.

Also, Heckert said they were focusing on "quicker, more athletic" DL. With Rubin anchoring the middle, I'm thinking a guy like Quinn or Benard will be on the field at RDE.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Yeah, but if we use the "rush end" philosophy like Atlanta, Indy, and Minnesota, where the RDE basically attacks the edge every play and heads for the backfield... Benard might be able to be that guy.

Also, Heckert said they were focusing on "quicker, more athletic" DL. With Rubin anchoring the middle, I'm thinking a guy like Quinn or Benard will be on the field at RDE.

But, I couldn't see both of them on the field at the same time. You need stout at one side especially with the lack of speed of our LBs.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

But, I couldn't see both of them on the field at the same time. You need stout at one side especially with the lack of speed of our LBs.

I could see bookended Quinn and Benard on passing downs. Mitchell starts at RDE and bumps to tackle on third and long.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Yeah, DTs high in the draft are scary as hell, given recent history. The "fatass" seems to overtake the "athletic."

Great points on Benard AND Watt. If we did trade down, I could see Watt as a target. Lots of talk on NFLN that he may be a great athlete but he doesn't have that "born with it" pass rush knack. It isn't what he does. But he would be a pretty fantastic LDE.

I hope Marcus Benard sees the opportunity sitting there for him to become a star in this league. If he can play at 265 and keep his speed? He's proven at both levels he can get to the quarterback. That would be mana from heaven, baby.

EDIT: Shit, Tom. Benard looks like a grown man playing with children in those clips.

LOL! I know. This was feeling like one of those fast paced basketball games where a coach needs to call time out to disrupt momentum and to get everyone re-focused. If Quinn got 10 of his sacks vrs those types of opponents; but he only had 1 more sack vrs the best competition on the schedule spread out over 8 weeks, what slam dunks epic upgrade over Marcus Benard here? That's what this pick is going to represent and I don't agree with its accuracy even if I have to contest popular opinion to state that.

I really needed to remind us all WHY we were excited about Benard heading into last year. And now that he doesn't have to LOSE countless sack opportunities to pass zone retreats - is HIS position REALLY the 1 place we need to upgrade most? A double digit sack volume from him almost seems inevitable looking ahead. I'm confident Heckert knows RDE is one place he currently doesn't have to knee jerk toward high risk at #6 overall.

Big picture, it's starting to sound like AJ Green is gonna be gone when we pick so I can REALLY make a ton of sense out of Julio Jones regardless of the mock draft consensus out there. Keep in mind, we're gonna have a better understanding of what will offer up a more sudden impact in Cleveland than many a stranger that doesn't even CARE about the Browns at all. We SAW Marcus Benard hunt down Ben Roethlisberger better than anyone we've ever employed to date when ALL he had to concentrate on at that time was sic em and sack em. As he got more experience, they diluted the pass rush thing with "now you need to learn the art of retreat to the flats." Then Alo broke out his video of Benard being a more effective pass rusher from a 3 point than in standup. Guess what the change to a 4-3 returns to us? Sic em, sock em and sack em from a St Benard with giddyup.

Here's another thing that's just as unpopular as mentioning Clay Matthews for our draft slot a couple years ago, JJ Watt hit a grand slam at Indy in front of all the right people. Since I don't feel Marcus Benard is the biggest upgrade necessary, this guy offers us a nice impact on the other edge and he can shift inside to a 3 technique when/if necessary. He was a turnover machine in thoss highlights I shared of him because he he CAN run at his weight. I'm sure if they added Citadel, Duke, Georgia Southern, and East Carolina to his schedule, he would have had at least 11 sacks. Since he's not on the blind side, QBs hurry the throw when he's close which translates into leading a conference in blocked/deflected passes. I'm sure John Madden would see Ted Hendricks here.

In fairness to Watt, he only converted to DE 2 seasons ago so he projects well in a world that wants best football ahead. He's only tapped the surface but the highlights of him makign tackles for a loss and focring turnover colors me extremely intrigued. IMO, he showed me the SAME wonderful pleasant surprises that Julio Jones did at the combines. This is front office poker season where NOBODY worth his craft is gonna announce "yaaa, JJ Watt or Julio Jones just Grand Slammed auditions at MAJOR roles we need filled at #6 overall." I'll guarantee both kids are being discussed in the what if Green is gone scenario. It's also possible Quinn is too - I just can't warm up to that very slight difference between him and Benard like I can to the differne between JJ and what we have at the left bookend.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

I could see bookended Quinn and Benard on passing downs. Mitchell starts at RDE and bumps to tackle on third and long.

Mitchell isn't even on the roster yet. that said, what is it you like about Mitchell. He never saw the field last year. They picked him up to be a 5 technique DE but it didn't work out.

He hasn't done much in his career to be handed the LDEs job. What was it that kept him off the field when we didn't have enough warm bodies to play a 4 man front. Hell, we don't even know if he's good enough to make the team.

That said, I think Bernard can be better then a pass rush specialist but I don't want him paired with Quinn opposite each other unless you got some guys in the middle that can push the pocket. and also, some bigger hitters with speed at LB.

Boils down to how comfortable Heckert is with the WR depth vs the DL depth in this draft.

[Brown Warrior]

I've read a lot from both writers and Heckert that Mitchell might make a really good 4-3 LDE because of his size and pass rush potential. Heckert spent a pick on him so it wasn't just a waiver wire situation... I think he likes the guy.

Truth is, we aren't going to find three new starters to go with Rubin, not with equally pressing needs at WR and perhaps linebacker. Guys who played plenty of 4-3 in their lives will still be Browns and still be contributing and even starting.

It's all guesswork now, but I think Mitchell, Benard, and Shaefering are the most likely holdovers expected to contribute to the DL. Maybe Robaire Smith. Ivey and Robertson are two others who may be better in the 4-3 and could provide depth.

When free agency finally happens, and I can't imagine that it doesn't because it's too messy, we'll be looking at 4-3 DL all over the freaking place. From Ray Edwards to Brandon Mebane to Okoye and beyond... and I'm betting we'll sign a couple at least. We'll draft a couple, too.

Just would've made things a lot clearer if we could've been doing that in March.

[Brown Warrior]

Tom talked about "Green #1" picking up some steam, but it sure sounds like Newton to me. I like that a lot, because I'm not convinced that anybody else in the top five prefers him over Gabbert.

I also think Gabbert is the one guy who makes the Bengals pass on A.J. Logically, a team with virtually no pass rush should be looking at Quinn, but I haven't heard that talk just yet. Might come soon, given Quinn's excellent workout.

My hope is that the guys playing positions we at least think we have (QB, #1 corner) go in the top five, along with Dareus and Miller (3-4 guy). That would push Green to us and that's our best best, getting arguably a top 2-3 player at #6.

For me, the toughest selection is between Julio Jones and Robert Quinn, and as Tom said... that's pretty high on the list of possibilities. Say it plays like this...

Carolina: Newton (feeling more and more certain)
Denver: Dareus (has felt certain for a long time)
Buffalo: Peterson (starting to become a scratch pick... but could be Gabbert)
Bengals: Green
Cardinals: Would be Gabbert in this scenario, not Miller. I've read a dozen times that they chances of them passing on Gabbert are a flat zero. King and Banks have written it repeatedly.

Browns won't take Miller, a 3-4 pass rusher. It'll be Jones or Quinn.

Which one? Little PFT ramble:

Carolina columnist: Panthers love Newton, Peterson, and Green

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on April 3, 2011, 10:42 AM EDT

We don’t know that the Panthers prefer Cam Newton to Blaine Gabbert. We do know that multiple national reporters and those closest to the team in Carolina believe that’s true.

Writing for the Charlotte Observer Sunday, Tom Sorensen says that Cam Newton, Georgia wide receiver A.J. Green, and LSU cornerback Patrick Peterson are the three players the Panthers love.

“If Carolina trades down, and Newton, Green and Peterson are gone, it could take Gabbert,” Sorensen writes. “But I swear that’s the only way.”

Darin Gantt of the Rock Hill Herald has made similar comments over the last few weeks, feeling that the Panthers prefer Newton to Gabbert. Green and Peterson seem more likely to be targets if the Panthers traded down.

Still, Green-to-Carolina at No. 1 has picked up a little steam. PFW’s Nolan Nawrocki and NFL Network’s Charley Casserly both had Green going first overall in their latest mock drafts.

They are betting on the underdog. At this stage, Newton sure looks like the favorite to go first overall.

[Brown Warrior]

Bowers not only blew his pro day, attendance was bad with very, very few decision makers (one head coach, one GM). General sense is that his stock can't be repaired to a top 10 or perhaps even 15 at this point, no matter what happens in the next few weeks. Too much concern about the long-term health of his knee, which might already have arthritis.

Peter King thinks he might be there for Tampa Bay at 20.

[Solon16]

I said Newton in January when others didn"t even have him rated in top 10...Always happens and every year...Don"t be surprised if Mallet goes to Minny either.

[Brown Warrior]

Here's where I am right at the moment...

1. Carolina: Newton. Lots of heat on this... but Carolina wants to trade down.
2. Denver: Dareus. Continues to be the scratch pick.
3. Buffalo: Miller. 3-4 team with no rush backer to speak of. Gabbert's the other possibility but my gut is now saying it's Miller.
4. Bengals: Gabbert. Seems like a complete duh to me. No hesitation.
5. Cards: Peterson. They cry for a long time after losing both QBs and pissing off Fitzy.
6. Browns: Green. I think it's a tough pick between Green, Jones, and Quinn. Still not sure.

[Brown Warrior]

NFL Draft - 2011 Mock Drafts - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Fresh stuff from the CBS guys: One gives us Green, the other Quinn. Stock stuff. And Peterson to SF by both, becoming a scratch pick as well.

Interesting that if both QBs are gone, both see AZ going pass rusher. If Miller's there, it's him. If not... could it be Robert Quinn?