Pittsburgh's Edge & Designated Pass Rushers

[Flugel]

To set the record straight - here's where each of the current Steeler DEs and Outside LBers came from in the draft:

DE Brett Keisel, BYU, rd 7 pick# 242, 2002
DE Aaron Smith, Northern Colorado, rd 4 pick# 109, 1999
OLB James Harrison, Kent State, undrafted, 2002
OLB LaMarr Woodley, Michigan, rd 2, 2007 pick# 46

Point is none of those guys were upper first round gotta haves inspite of playing at a Pro Bowl level.

I bring this up because this draft is VERY deep at DE/OLBer so we don't have to reach or knee jerk. Plus, that shows us if you have the right eye for talent in charge of your draft - this type of setup gets more possible.

[Brown Warrior]

I don't disagree with you, Tom... it's just a very tough game to play: "Marques Colston was drafted in round 7... so we can get our #1 WR in round 7. James Harrison was undrafted, so..."

I personally think the best of just about any position happens in the first couple rounds when it's all averaged out, which makes sense: They're the best prospects. I think there are "lower prioritized positions" that have better value later in the draft.

Like, you'd get a better WSLB than quarterback, on the average. There are tons of starting WSLBs drafted in round four or later, but not so many QBs. Or left tackles.

I know we had that article about which positions had the highest percentage of starters drafted in round one, and it was obviously QB. But I can't remember the rest. I know when I spent a lot of time looking at corners on good defenses, I was surprised how low a lot of them were drafted.

I think there are positions you draft in round one... and positions you COULD draft in round one... and there are positions you very rarely draft in round one.

[Brown Warrior]

BTW, I think your point holds up pretty well if you focus on 4-3 RDEs, the primary pass rusher. Freeney and Abraham were ones, but Coles and Allen weren't. Neither was Osi.

[DaBrowns41]

I don't think he's solely trying to say that "we can wait until late in the draft to find a starter".

He's simply stating that we don't have to panic and reach in the first round or two on a player, if there is a better selection that also fills a need.

First rounders aren't guaranteed either, they just are viewed as more talented, and more productive throughout their collegiate years. But we don't have to try and fill every need with early picks.

Part of what makes great teams great is their ability to draft well throughout the entire draft and develop one or two of the late round picks into at least above average starters.

The chances of us getting a James Harrison are slim. But it can happen, and we don't have to freak out if we don't get Robert Quinn (who's not worth a 6th overall pick anyway) in the first round.

[Brown Warrior]

It also depends on whether you're looking for a starter... or a backup... or a developmental player.

For the Browns, I think we have a screaming need for immediate starters at WR and on the DL. I agree with Bronx that you wouldn't likely start more than one rookie DL... so another might come in free agency. I think Rubin, Shaefering, Mitchell, and Benard are candidates and perhaps two will start.

We don't have an immediate need for a starter anywhere else, really. We could sure as hell use another linebacker but at least in theory, Fujita, Gocong, Jackson, Brown, Haden, Elam, and Ward are all starters.

If we knew there was no free agency (I expect there will be), the starters I'd most want to find would be #1 WR, RDE, and under tackle.

[Koa]

I agree Tom. The Steelers have always had that rare ability to find low-profile impact players, but the DE depth in this draft allows teams with other pressing needs (Browns) to beef up another position in the 1st.

[Brown Warrior]

Specifically, I like the idea of getting Green/Jones and then Sheard a LOT more than getting Quinn/Bowers and then Cobb. I like the depth at DE a lot better and both Quinn and Bowers are a little scary.

[Sez.EJ]

It tells me Pittsburgh has excellent scouts and does not reach. They rarely make trades. They make a great board, stand by it, and just pick. They have had a lot of success in late rounds. Which is why they contend so consistently. Their team is not just made up of high picks. They don't play big in free agency mostly second tier F/A's who can start, or supply depth, filling holes while they build through the draft. The other thing they do is discard the troublemakers right away. (with the exception being Pigben)

But for the most part it tells me they trust the scouts and the board they make.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

It also depends on whether you're looking for a starter... or a backup... or a developmental player.

For the Browns, I think we have a screaming need for immediate starters at WR and on the DL. I agree with Bronx that you wouldn't likely start more than one rookie DL... so another might come in free agency. I think Rubin, Shaefering, Mitchell, and Benard are candidates and perhaps two will start.

We don't have an immediate need for a starter anywhere else, really. We could sure as hell use another linebacker but at least in theory, Fujita, Gocong, Jackson, Brown, Haden, Elam, and Ward are all starters.

If we knew there was no free agency (I expect there will be), the starters I'd most want to find would be #1 WR, RDE, and under tackle.

My main point is if we don't go DE at the very first chance - people don't need to panic. We have 7 more picks now. Pitt STOPPED doing the round 1 thing at those positions.

Even though my favorite 2 players for us are Green and Julio, I'm not sure Heckert's research is concluding either will be the guy when we draft. That being the case, I'm prepared for just about anything. Come to think of it, what first round WR is Pitt relying on today? How about Green Bay? How about New England? New Orleans? Did I just name all the best passing offenses in the playoffs? I don't think Mike Martz was planning around any 1st round WRs in Chicago either as a final 4 participant. Philly's BEST WR is a 2nd round draft pick - DeSean Jackson while it's important to note Jeremy Maclin wasn't in the upper half of round 1 (#19 overall).

When SF won their first Superbowl, their QB was a 3rd round pick just like Colt McCoy and All Pro WR Dwight Clark was a 10th round WR out of Clemson. Meanwhile, Bill Walsh drafted Ronnie Lott, Carlton Williamson, and Eric Wright in the first 3 rounds of the draft prior to that Superbowl while adding Dwight Hicks in Free Agency. They got their terrific secondary within a 1 year span. UNDERSTANDING, that wasn't the final draft of their existence - THEN they could draft a Jerry Rice in a later draft. Holmgren was learning under him at the time so I won't be surprised if that is something he has never forgotten. If you look at that draft as you should because of the willingness to go unprecedented - an ENORMOUS payoff followed.

I know you're gonna get distracted with "that was 30 years ago" BUT aren't you REALLY excited we're looking to Bill Walsh's innovations this year?

Let's get real for a second, this might only be our 2nd good draft volume in 12 years. Consequently, we're not solving every deficiency with our eyes on Superbowl Sunday just yet.

I do NOT feel comfortable with all the high risky DEs projecting top 10 consideration EXCEPT for the guys that can also play a 3 technique (which project more for 10-12 consideration according to Mayock). There's going to be Front Offices that shy away from a guy that had to have screws put into his surgically repaired foot. I know MoMass and Cribbs will go on record saying that James Harrison knows how to knock some screws loose while Steeler fans pay 100% of his fines. I bring this up because Heckert might not share my excitement and intrigue for Julio; especially since he's career rides on epic decisions like this. He doesn't strike me as risky.

[Brown Warrior]

There's no doubt many of the best passing offenses have a good receiver corps without spending high picks. But their story is different from ours. At both pass rusher and WR, we're not really adding to a nucleus.

In Pittsburgh, they were often adding to Ward and Burruss with Holmes (first round), or adding to Ward and Holmes with Wallace, and so on. They didn't have a standing start and then draft Wallace and Sanders.

In Green Bay, they hit with Driver way back when in the 7th round and that's a nice stable piece. They've gone through guys like Javon Walker (1st) and Robert Ferguson (2nd)... but Driver remains. And then they added another great hit in Jennings in 2 when a ton of mocks had him in 1. Every draftnick loved that guy... I was shocked he fell to the Packers where he did. Then they did a nice job of continuing to add pieces with Jones and Nelson.

If Robiskie were a young Driver, if he'd put up maybe 800 and 900 yards, you'd say he's a very stable piece to build around and you look for speed, YAC stuff, Cobb or Jernigan or Young. But in truth... we got nothin'. There's no foundation. Everybody's a hope and a prayer.

New England actually made some pretty big moves, just not in the draft... although they did miss on the Florida kid pretty high. They brought in Welker and Moss... but now they really need a receiver.

There's more than one way to skin a cat... so it's too bad we don't really have most of those ways available thanks to the lockout. We could bring in James Jones or Sidney Rice, two WCO guys, and then draft Jernigan. But now it's likely we'll go into the draft not knowing if we can get anyone else.

Saw that Julio's coming into town. He got a thumbs up in Indy, so if the Browns' docs say he's good to go, I think he'll be one of a few guys under serious consideration.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

There's no doubt many of the best passing offenses have a good receiver corps without spending high picks. But their story is different from ours. At both pass rusher and WR, we're not really adding to a nucleus.

In Pittsburgh, they were often adding to Ward and Burruss with Holmes (first round), or adding to Ward and Holmes with Wallace, and so on. They didn't have a standing start and then draft Wallace and Sanders.

In Green Bay, they hit with Driver way back when in the 7th round and that's a nice stable piece. They've gone through guys like Javon Walker (1st) and Robert Ferguson (2nd)... but Driver remains. And then they added another great hit in Jennings in 2 when a ton of mocks had him in 1. Every draftnick loved that guy... I was shocked he fell to the Packers where he did. Then they did a nice job of continuing to add pieces with Jones and Nelson.

If Robiskie were a young Driver, if he'd put up maybe 800 and 900 yards, you'd say he's a very stable piece to build around and you look for speed, YAC stuff, Cobb or Jernigan or Young. But in truth... we got nothin'. There's no foundation. Everybody's a hope and a prayer.

New England actually made some pretty big moves, just not in the draft... although they did miss on the Florida kid pretty high. They brought in Welker and Moss... but now they really need a receiver.

There's more than one way to skin a cat... so it's too bad we don't really have most of those ways available thanks to the lockout. We could bring in James Jones or Sidney Rice, two WCO guys, and then draft Jernigan. But now it's likely we'll go into the draft not knowing if we can get anyone else.

Saw that Julio's coming into town. He got a thumbs up in Indy, so if the Browns' docs say he's good to go, I think he'll be one of a few guys under serious consideration.

It seemed like Pittsburgh got burned by character with 1st round WRs and they just flat out overrated Huey Richardson at DE in round 1. In both learning experiences, they've evolved and found great guys later in the draft at those positions. Now that we have heckert, I think we can compete with that.

I'm really intrigued and excited about Julio so I hope Heckert hears from the doctor the foot injury isn't a big deal. If Green, Miller and Peterson are already gone - it just might be Julio after all Shep.