SENECA WALLACE vs. TROYMONT SMITH

[Riffer X]

Ok, let's get the me being bias toward OSU out of the way from the get go. I know I am, you know I am, Buckeyes fans are assholes, the Big 11 sucks and the SEC are kings. However, I am sorta perplexed that Smith isn't getting a little more love here.

The Walrus having fetish issues for one of his own bothers me to say the least, mostly because it's at QB. I thought this guy was supposed to groom someone for us so these systems merge into one under the right guy at QB? That guy could be a short term veteran fix while we groom a prospect or two and keep Quinn around, a guy to compete with Quinn or a franchise type in the draft with Quinn starting for another year to see if he breaks out.

A guy like Wallace does nothing for me, he's simply a stopgap backup that Homes is comfy with. I think Smith could legitimately push for the starting job. Let's not forget that before the ballyhooed rookie Flacco Seagulls (Flugelism) got his job Smith was the starter and looking good. Then he got really sick, Flaxico took over and that was it. Personally, I'm not sold on Flacoo yet but that's neither here nor there. I think Smith can play. He has the arm, the feet, the pocket presence and pretty much everything except for prototype height. Lord knows guys like Dan McGuire/Dexter Anderson have shown the light that having a big arm, big feet and height like LeBron mean great success. I've heard people knock Smith's accuracy, but seriously, is there really enough to go on there in his limited attempts? I think not.

Smith was the best QB in Buckeye history and was deadly accurate with plenty of arm. He also has a great propensity to keep plays alive and as our lovely rapist brother in Pitt shows, that is huge in this league and our division. He's sitting there for a fifth round pick of which we have four of. The guy is Cleveland born and bred, was a real Browns fan and not some bandwagonning pussy growing up. That doesn't mean beans and I know people are tired of the local schtick, but it also shouldn't preclude a guy just because he's local.

I also realize Homes doesn't want another QB controversy and a Smith/Queen competition could stunt team growth. I get all that, but who gives a shit? The kid can play, we need QB's so get him in here. What is there to lose? This guy is already way more developed than any Pike, The Fever, Robinson, Kafka or mid level draftee we could bring in. BTW, can someone get DA out of here already? For God sakes and take Ratliff with him. If we need QB's (and we most certainly do) clean those two out, bring Smith in here and draft one or two guys. WTF is Seneca Wallace going to bring to the table? A guy that has never shown starting capability (remember Smith did), is smallish and is nothing more than a Walrus guy is about it.

Not only that, but you're stealing within the division, and that is always a good thing. He develops under them and puts results up for us, a total win win. Bring him in here. Christ, is Queen even going to be healthy? Boy, I can sure get worked up about the prospects of having Seneca Wallace starting the majority of our games this season if Quinn bombs or is hurt.

What Mangie did last year bringing in Jets guys was handpick the ones he knew would be good locker room presence guys that bought into his system already. I think it paid off, albeit some seemed to hate it including Grossi. There are some players there though, and Bowens was a stud last season. Stuckey shows potential, Barton is solid if healthy and Coleman is solid depth. Elam may or may not be any good but he served a purpose and if Ratliff was any good at all we would have seen him last year. Point being, that was a different situation than where we are at now. Going with Wallace just because Homes knows him seems like a bad move. Show some balls and transfix this position like Chucky would.

I do not want Clausen, I think that pick sets the team back from winning sooner. We are not going to get Bradford, so why not bring in a guy who could have starting potential, is young, from Cleveland and a rival's project for almost nothing?

Explain that to me, please.

[Enigmatic Evil]

I agree Smith > Wallace. I think you raise some good points here Riffer, great post.

I think bringing in Smith to push Quinn is a good idea. DA should've been pushing Quinn but the fact of the matter is unless DA has certified weapons he's not going to get it done at this level. He flashed brilliance but he also played at a level polar opposite of that spectrum so I don't really want him around anymore.

All Smith ever did was get sick at the wrong time and really why should we discount him for that? He never played to the stupefying levels that Anderson achieved so I don't think he deserves any ire either. I'm not "on the bandwagon" as some would call it, but I certainly wouldn't be opposed to us giving him a shot. The guy's driven, and motivated to play for the Browns. I think that should be welcoming enough considering how difficult a time we seem to have luring talent to this team.

[DieselPusher]

Good Post.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Ok, let's get the me being bias toward OSU out of the way from the get go. I know I am, you know I am, Buckeyes fans are assholes, the Big 11 sucks and the SEC are kings. However, I am sorta perplexed that Smith isn't getting a little more love here.

The Walrus having fetish issues for one of his own bothers me to say the least, mostly because it's at QB. I thought this guy was supposed to groom someone for us so these systems merge into one under the right guy at QB? That guy could be a short term veteran fix while we groom a prospect or two and keep Quinn around, a guy to compete with Quinn or a franchise type in the draft with Quinn starting for another year to see if he breaks out.

A guy like Wallace does nothing for me, he's simply a stopgap backup that Homes is comfy with. I think Smith could legitimately push for the starting job. Let's not forget that before the ballyhooed rookie Flacco Seagulls (Flugelism) got his job Smith was the starter and looking good. Then he got really sick, Flaxico took over and that was it. Personally, I'm not sold on Flacoo yet but that's neither here nor there. I think Smith can play. He has the arm, the feet, the pocket presence and pretty much everything except for prototype height. Lord knows guys like Dan McGuire/Dexter Anderson have shown the light that having a big arm, big feet and height like LeBron mean great success. I've heard people knock Smith's accuracy, but seriously, is there really enough to go on there in his limited attempts? I think not.

Smith was the best QB in Buckeye history and was deadly accurate with plenty of arm. He also has a great propensity to keep plays alive and as our lovely rapist brother in Pitt shows, that is huge in this league and our division. He's sitting there for a fifth round pick of which we have four of. The guy is Cleveland born and bred, was a real Browns fan and not some bandwagonning pussy growing up. That doesn't mean beans and I know people are tired of the local schtick, but it also shouldn't preclude a guy just because he's local.

I also realize Homes doesn't want another QB controversy and a Smith/Queen competition could stunt team growth. I get all that, but who gives a shit? The kid can play, we need QB's so get him in here. What is there to lose? This guy is already way more developed than any Pike, The Fever, Robinson, Kafka or mid level draftee we could bring in. BTW, can someone get DA out of here already? For God sakes and take Ratliff with him. If we need QB's (and we most certainly do) clean those two out, bring Smith in here and draft one or two guys. WTF is Seneca Wallace going to bring to the table? A guy that has never shown starting capability (remember Smith did), is smallish and is nothing more than a Walrus guy is about it.

Not only that, but you're stealing within the division, and that is always a good thing. He develops under them and puts results up for us, a total win win. Bring him in here. Christ, is Queen even going to be healthy? Boy, I can sure get worked up about the prospects of having Seneca Wallace starting the majority of our games this season if Quinn bombs or is hurt.

What Mangie did last year bringing in Jets guys was handpick the ones he knew would be good locker room presence guys that bought into his system already. I think it paid off, albeit some seemed to hate it including Grossi. There are some players there though, and Bowens was a stud last season. Stuckey shows potential, Barton is solid if healthy and Coleman is solid depth. Elam may or may not be any good but he served a purpose and if Ratliff was any good at all we would have seen him last year. Point being, that was a different situation than where we are at now. Going with Wallace just because Homes knows him seems like a bad move. Show some balls and transfix this position like Chucky would.

I do not want Clausen, I think that pick sets the team back from winning sooner. We are not going to get Bradford, so why not bring in a guy who could have starting potential, is young, from Cleveland and a rival's project for almost nothing?

Explain that to me, please.

Awesome post! This is the ONE position we're putting our utmost faith into Mike Holmgren for. If Mangini mentioned the name Seneca Wallace or David Carr last year - all the media and all the Mangini haters would have chased him to freakin Detroit.

Troy Smith's exchange value is ONLY a 5th round pick, which essentially is like saying we could KEEP the pick to draft an inexperienced rookie somewhere in a mid-round this year. Understanding what's been portrayed about this year's crop, which of these rookies after round 1 looks ready to start this year or next? Not only that, but the Corey Williams trade adds another pick to the draft so we're STILL gonna draft a QB project anyhow. It's win-win. Smith HAS experience. I can ONLY go by when he has started, which goes back to his junior and senior years at OSU. He was somethign like 24-2 with the reality that they changed about 11 starters on the team his senior year. It was to be somewhat of a rebuild and on all accounts OSU wasn't supposed to beat Michigan. And then a Heisman winner was born.

And then I see him beating Pittsburgh when he filled in as a starter, which is something we've rarely done over the last 5 years. If we're gonna excuse Quinn to inexperience for 3 years, I think we extend some degree of consistency to understandign Troy isn't gonna post John Elway stats in his first 4 NFL starts because John Elway couldn't look like John Elway in his first 4 starts either right? Drew Brees couldn't become the Drew Brees you're looking at today in his first 2 years of starting or they don't announce Eli's name with the very first pick in his 3rd season in San Diego. They thought they were so desperate - they took Eli even after he said he didn't want to go there. It led to Rivers, a holdout and a Drew Brees Pro Bowl and playoffs against all odds set by the experts Drew didn't listen to.

Today, like it or not, Troy Smith enters his 4th season looking for the same opportunity Quinn is getting by default. If I saw some degree of progress in Quinn - I wouldn't care about the opportunity for Troy for a measely 5th round pick. All the wishful thinking in the world doesn't change how this is playing out for Quinn. Anytime Notre Dame played OSU, Oregon State, LSU, USC or highly ranked opponents - Quinn never elevated the play of his teamates to victory regardless of how much he lit up those 3 military academies and Michigan state. That being the case, he went to an NFL team in transition where the task has been similar. Unfortunately, so has the outcomes when we've asked him to do more than hand off. I'm not one that WANTED Quinn to fail but I've taken the blinders off as much as I want a competition instead of handing tenure to the next Mike Phipps. You KEEP Mike Phipps starting when he's not progressing and there's ZERO chance of finding Brian Sipe at discount prices and convenience. I see alot of similarities between Troy Smith and Drew Brees but the skin color. And then you have your stereotypes questioning and if the guy deserves 1 chance.
- Tom F.

[Koa]

I still prefer Smith over Wallace by a slim margin but lets take a closer look at Seneca:

Knows Holmgrens system...
Accurate in the WCO...
Still relatively young (29) with athleticism to develop more...
Fills in the void at backup or can do spot duty starting...

His career stats (since 2007) show evidence of productivity:

238-390 for 2,447 yards
Completion: 61%
TD-INT: 16-6

Looking at the facts I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a backup gig for the next few seasons.

[OconRecon]

Would we get to pick what 5th we give to the Ravens?

[mz.]

I think neither of them have beyond backup potential, but the thing that separates them in Holmgren's eyes is that he's already familiar/comfortable with Wallace...he knows what he can do. And I'm guessing that there's some level of comfort that comes with implicitly trusting your backup QB. I don't like the my-guys-fetishism, either, but at backup QB I can get with it.

[DawgFan]

Item #1

Both Smith (6') and Wallace (5'11") are SHORT. What does this matter? Well, for one it changes the blocking schemes on the OL. It also forces offenses to go more into a rolling pocket. Both of these things change the type of player you want on the OL. I have no idea if our current OL has the ability to make this switch.

Item #2

Wallace is OLD to start a career. He is going to be 30 and still has never been a starter in this league. He is FAR older than Schaub was when he got his chance...so even if he burns it up he is only a 5-6 year stopgap.

Item #3

Neither has a significantly better completion rate than Quinn..and are on much better teams...with consistent offensive schemes...and with better running games.

I just don't care about trading for a QB UNLESS he is SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than what we have now. Quinn has not had the consistent scheme, WR's, RB in his time here...and has yet to have a full preseason KNOWING he would be the starter. With that in mind, I am willing to GAMBLE on him on more year.

The Browns are not SB contenders in '10...so why not go with what we have under better circumstances just this once before starting over again. Besides, Holmgren is known for finding QB's via trade and late draft picks...so who says he can't do that in '11???

[slowmo411]

I dont really care for either of these guys, but, with that said I trust Holgrem on the QB.

[YtownBacker]

I only have one thing to add. Has anybody heard anyone remotely affiliated with the Brown's say they are interested in Wallace. Saying Holmgren or Heckert is doing anything more then due diligence talking to teams is pure speculation at this point.

When they schedule to bring someone in to work them out and give them a physical then it's a solid rumor. Trying to schedule Carr to come in here makes it a solid rumor and shows interest. I don't think anybody here even knows if someone from the Brown's may have already been in contact with Smith.

I'm sure this FO is examining ALL available talent, especially QBs. I can't see anywhere that anybody reliable says that Wallace has a leg up on Smith of vice versa. All these guys want a contract with some guaranteed money os the first thing is for them to determine if they are worth their asking price.

For instance, I was for bringing in Bodden but we find out know that he is asking for Dunta Robinson money and that's why NE can't even get anything done with him.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by OconRecon

Would we get to pick what 5th we give to the Ravens?

Not sure Ocon, but does it really freaking matter? It's a measly 5th round pick that could land us a gem, you never know. At the very least he would be a very adequate backup.

We can still draft a mid level guy too, so I don't why there would even be a hesitation to bring him in here.

[Riffer X]

Originally Posted by DawgFan

Item #1

Both Smith (6') and Wallace (5'11") are SHORT. What does this matter? Well, for one it changes the blocking schemes on the OL. It also forces offenses to go more into a rolling pocket. Both of these things change the type of player you want on the OL. I have no idea if our current OL has the ability to make this switch.

Item #2

Wallace is OLD to start a career. He is going to be 30 and still has never been a starter in this league. He is FAR older than Schaub was when he got his chance...so even if he burns it up he is only a 5-6 year stopgap.

Item #3

Neither has a significantly better completion rate than Quinn..and are on much better teams...with consistent offensive schemes...and with better running games.

I just don't care about trading for a QB UNLESS he is SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than what we have now. Quinn has not had the consistent scheme, WR's, RB in his time here...and has yet to have a full preseason KNOWING he would be the starter. With that in mind, I am willing to GAMBLE on him on more year.

The Browns are not SB contenders in '10...so why not go with what we have under better circumstances just this once before starting over again. Besides, Holmgren is known for finding QB's via trade and late draft picks...so who says he can't do that in '11???

Good stuff as usual Dawg, but I think our athletic line is plenty capable and a perfect fit for Smith. We have to get RT addressed yet, but if you remember Quinn had a lot more plays at his disposal with his mobility, we just didn't see it much last year with the turtle slow approach of Dabol and the offense's progression.

Quinn and Smith are a lot alike, which is a good thing if you want some continuity. DA is in another world of his own, so that was always a problem switching those two on and off.

Bottom line is you can talk about rolling coverages and all the other stuff, but you need a QB that can make plays in this league, not just be a statue like DA.