Results of Atlanta trade

[Brown Warrior]

Here's another thought, and it was hit upon in a good SI article looking at teams statistical needs and how they were addressed on the draft: Will the Browns improve their weakest area, pass offense (30) and scoring points (31)? They absolutely needed to do that in order to compete.

So when all the draft jargon becomes meaningless (BPA, need, value, etc.), it's about wins. And wins are about a lot of things, but clearly teams that do certain things really poorly need to fix those broken parts. So in November, we'll be talking about whether the Browns are passing the ball better and scoring more points.

It isn't just about Greg Little... it's about what the Browns do to fix the most broken part, period. That can be a new coach and a new system, not just new players. It can be about current player progressing (McCoy, Lauvao, Robiskie) or getting healthy (Hardesty, Pashos, Womack).

But in the end, you either did the right things or you didn't. And the Browns have to do a lot of things better... but there's nothing they've been doing worse than passing and scoring... in a passing league. So we'll see.

Broncos, Lions, Bucs grab honors; 'Boys, Jags fall flat - Kerry J. Byrne - SI.com

[Dan in Florida]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Here's another thought, and it was hit upon in a good SI article looking at teams statistical needs and how they were addressed on the draft: Will the Browns improve their weakest area, pass offense (30) and scoring points (31)? They absolutely needed to do that in order to compete.

So when all the draft jargon becomes meaningless (BPA, need, value, etc.), it's about wins. And wins are about a lot of things, but clearly teams that do certain things really poorly need to fix those broken parts. So in November, we'll be talking about whether the Browns are passing the ball better and scoring more points.

It isn't just about Greg Little... it's about what the Browns do to fix the most broken part, period. That can be a new coach and a new system, not just new players. It can be about current player progressing (McCoy, Lauvao, Robiskie) or getting healthy (Hardesty, Pashos, Womack).

But in the end, you either did the right things or you didn't. And the Browns have to do a lot of things better... but there's nothing they've been doing worse than passing and scoring... in a passing league. So we'll see.

Broncos, Lions, Bucs grab honors; 'Boys, Jags fall flat - Kerry J. Byrne - SI.com

Expounding on this, the Browns are VERY MUCH affected by the LOCKOUT since we changed coaches & offensive/defensive systems which should hurt us REGARDLESS of whom the Browns had chosen in the Draft. I'm sure you know that, but I'm just sayin'.

[YtownBacker]

You also have to note that having a defense that can get the other team off the field instead of letting them eat up chunks of time will help the offense.

The stats are basically useless because you changed coaching staffs, offensive systems and personnel. Mangini wanted a run first offense coupled with a revolving door at QB, turnovers and inability to control time of possession limited passing stats and scoring.

When you can't get the ball back for the offense you don't score. When you install a run first offense your passing stats will be low.

You want to improve those two important things, you fire the coach and install a new system (WCO) with a new QB.

Everything can't be broken down based solely on numbers.

[Brown Warrior]

No... but you can say, "The Browns need to pass the ball much better and score way more points to be seriously competitive in this league."

They've been bad at both for three years... and they've won 14 games total. The top QBR teams are basically the top teams (with the annual Jets/Texans exceptions) year after year.

The coaching and system changes are part of that. It let Holmgren do what I wish he'd done the day he arrived, sink or swim with systems he believes in. But whatever we do... we have to make it work.

[OconRecon]

Here's a good article from The OBR. I'm mainly parking it here so it's findable over the next 1-3 years.

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Scout.com: Who You Got?

As the distance grows from the 2011 NFL draft, it’s hard not to project ahead to the coming season. By most accounts, the Browns delivered on a second consecutive solid draft – which should be considered a rarity given the team’s expansion malaise over the past decade. On paper, Browns’ GM Tom Heckert added two likely defensive line prospects, along with some intriguing mid-round talent. Of course, the key to the team’s 2011 draft is centered on the great flexibility added to the 2012 version – all of which speaks to a badly needed sense of overall franchise continuity.

In some respects, this most recent draft could prove to be a seminal moment in the franchise’s return to respectability. Combining the prospects added in 2011 to last year’s haul of Joe Haden, T.J. Ward and Colt McCoy demonstrates the possibility of an authentic long-term vision that has been non-existent since the team’s return in 1999.

Yet in the meantime, the 2011 draft will likely be measured by using some direct – if not altogether unfair comparisons. As many fans and media have suggested, the initial success of the 2011 draft will come down to the following scenario.

Julio Jones (6th Overall Selection) + Justin Houston (70th Overall Selection)

vs.

Phil Taylor (21st Overall Selection) + Greg Little (59th Overall Selection) + Owen Marecic (124th Overall Selection) + Atlanta’s 2012 1st and 4th Round Picks

Although again, the true merit of this trade will not reveal itself for at least 2-3 seasons – especially considering the fate of the 2012 draft. However, at first glance, it appears that Jones and Taylor will forever be linked together – along with endless comparisons made between Jones and Little.

On this point, it’s a bit unfair to both Taylor and Little – considering that Jones should experience a more seamless fit on an already talented Atlanta offense. While it would be incredibly easy to devalue Heckert’s trade down if Jones emerges as a rookie playmaker in Atlanta, doing so would reduce the importance of the team adding overall volume – especially within the context of the 3-4 year rebuilding plan the Browns are currently enacting.

In the short term, Little has a huge learning curve ahead of him, at least based on his year of inactivity while suspended at North Carolina. In Taylor’s case, the argument comes down to the idea of value. The Browns need an upgrade in both their run defense and passing offense. While the results may not be conclusive in 2011, at least the team’s odds have doubled in fixing two of their critical areas of need.

Yet, just wait for the howls to emerge from Browns Nation after Jones’ first 100-yard receiving effort.

However, with this argument locked into the view of fans and media alike for the next several years, it’s worth taking a look back at some of the other pivotal front office moves of the past. For the sake of comparisons, it seems the Browns could have done a lot worse.

Mark Sanchez (5th Overall Pick)

vs.

Alex Mack (21st Overall Pick) + David Veikune (52nd Overall Pick) + Kenyon Coleman + Abe Elam + Brett Ratliff

The Browns’ front office at this time, essentially run by former coach Eric Mangini targeted a more immediate need of adding some veteran leadership to the remnants of Romeo Crennel’s country club locker room. The additions of Coleman and Elam – later enhanced by the signings of Eric Barton and David Bowens – helped to establish both Mangini’s authority and his particular brand of defense in Cleveland.

However, this trade shouldn’t solely be judged on the arrivals of three players who are not a part of the team’s immediate future. In making the initial trade down, Mangini gave himself room to trade two more times – which netted a draft-depleted team some additional picks. However, even with this under consideration, the trade can be easily reduced to Mack and Veikune vs. Sanchez.

Of course, after two years, Mangini’s first major move as pseudo-GM can now be summarized as Mack vs. Sanchez. It’s like we never knew you, David Veikune.

In terms of overall profile, it’s easy to suggest that either the Jets fleeced Mangini – or that Mangini simply misfired on his second-round pick. Simply put, Sanchez is a star quarterback on a playoff contender – despite his still obvious growing pains – while the Browns added a core piece to their offensive line. However, as time passes, the potential development of Colt McCoy can effectively negate this comparison.

Haloti Ngata (12th Overall Pick)

vs.

Kamerion Wimbley (13th Overall Pick) + Baba Oshinowo (181st Overall Pick)

If we’re discussing pivotal draft day moments, an entire chapter needs to be devoted to Phil Savage. Although some would argue that Savage’s 2008 offseason moves helped to destroy the team’s long-term depth, no move was more critical than the 2006 trade made with Baltimore. In swapping first-round picks, Savage chose a projected 3-4 pass rusher over a physical interior lineman.

Five years later, Ngata is the heart of the Ravens’ front seven, Wimbley is in Oakland and Heckert was forced to attempt to solve the team’s decade-long run defense issues. While Wimbley was a hard worker and made a few plays during his short time in Cleveland, passing on Ngata became symbolic of the draft day mistakes that have plagued the long-term health of this franchise.

Speaking of which….

Gerard Warren (3rd Overall Selection)

vs.

Richard Seymour (6th Overall Selection)

I’m not sure if irony is in play here, or just a sweeping sense of incompetence. Anyway, it appeared that for about eight years, Savage and Butch Davis were simultaneously cleaning up the messes laid at their feet by previous regimes – while also creating their own unique brand of chaos.

As Browns’ legend goes, the team was set to enter the 2001 draft targeting Seymour. Yet, to the surprise of his scouting staff, Davis pulled rank to grab the mercurial Warren. A few attempted “kill shots” later, Warren was swept away to Denver, while Seymour collected three Super Bowl championships. As for a direct comparison, even the most optimistic of Browns fans couldn’t ignore this mistake.

In terms of the Browns’ warped sense of continuity – meaning that the constant rebooting of the franchise often translated to a past GM drafting for future version – a Seymour selection could have solidified the team’s 3-4 defensive front….at least after Davis eventually quit.

Finally, while all of the above scenarios offer the kinds of comparisons that could eventually fade away into the gentle night of NFL memories, one will forever linger.

Or in other words – and then this happened.

Dwight Clark

vs.

24 Wasted Picks

Even if Julio Jones becomes the next Jerry Rice, nothing can sting worse than this.

[Riceloft]

Originally Posted by OconRecon

Even if Julio Jones becomes the next Jerry Rice...

That about sums up my thoughts on this trade. We only got screwed if Jones is the next Rice.

[YtownBacker]

You can never look back and comparisons are really fruitless. What if Jones tears an ACL. Then does the trade swing forever to the Browns. You can only speculate because you never know how things would have gone with Jones in Cleveland or if we would have selected him at all.

It's fun sometimes to say, what if, but it is in fact comparing apples and oranges.

Hell, if Cleveland would have selected Richard Seymour he probably would have got into an accident on his way from the airport and never played a down.

[Brown Warrior]

Well put, everybody. I don't think Jones being good is really the measure of the trade or that we can really judge it for at least three seasons. I think it's entirely possible that the far more experienced Jones going to a far more established offense in Atlanta could break out earlier.

And yeah, I think we'll hear the groans. I might hear a few from within my own head. But I'll fight to stay patient and see how it plays out over a little more time.

To me, though, judging the trade is more about what we could have done by keeping the pick, like Jones-Sheard-Casey/Nevis. What we'll have instead is Taylor-Sheard-Little... and then whatever we get with the Atlanta first round pick next year. If it's late round one, that's a great spot for a 4-3 linebacker or right tackle, spots rarely taken high in round one. You could get the top player at either spot.