Colt McCoy 2011

[Enigmatic Evil]

When I watched Colt McCoy play for us, I saw things in a QB on the field for the Browns that I haven't really seen from MANY QB's that have worn the Brown and Orange for us over the last 12 years. He showed a natural leadership that his teammates gravitated toward. I think that's essential for a young team. He needs to know his teammates trust him and that trust is reciprocated. I think that's fair with young Colt. His decision making skills were head and shoulders above the Frye's, Quinn's and Anderson's. He makes the SMART play and he doesn't take many risks that could end up costing the team. Instead of 4-and-outs, we extended a lot of drives and fought to score points. We did not see that with Daboll's offense in 2009 when we had BQ and DA behind center.

Fact is, that was his first season, we got him key starts against some major NFL teams and that experience will serve him in this next season. I'm not worried about his arm strength or his shoulder injury which I've read has fully healed.

I like the Jeff Garcia comparison, now I don't know how many of you guys saw this guy coming up in the CFL but when he hit the NFL for the 49'ers he was already in his prime and really I think that Garcia is on another tier compared to where McCoy is now but they both scramble to make plays and they both have underrated arms. Jeff Garcia didn't have a cannon arm but he could make the throws he needed to make, that's Colt McCoy for us.

I really hate how we keep building Colt McCoy up, comparing him to Joe Montana, comparing him to Jeff Garcia, let's let Colt McCoy build his own legend. He impressed as a rookie and I have no doubts that he will continue to impress but hoping and dreaming he will grow into this legendary QB is just setting us up for disappointment. (Jeff Garcia may not be 'legendary' but for us CFL fans he's quite a big name, like Doug Flutie...)

To be honest, all you needed to do was WATCH Colt to know that we're on to something, but why we keep finding excuses to debate the matter is ludicrous to me. I know you want us to draft a 1st round QB, and you probably won't quit grinding Colt's gears until he takes us to the playoffs OR we draft that 1st round QB you so covet so he can blow up in our faces like Tim Couch or Brady Quinn did, but let's not mind that, let's bring a laundry list of 3rd round failiures to compare Colt to instead...

Good grief...

[YtownBacker]

........................................... ...amen

[Brown Warrior]

Great post, EE. I mean it. The last digs, I totally blow off because it was such a terrific post and I agree with every word... and because you obviously totally don't get where I'm coming from at all or that we're in practically complete agreement.

Read my lips: I don't want to start over at QB. Since the first Pittsburgh start, I've been very optimistic about McCoy. I think the WCO is absolutely ideal for him. I'm very impressed at what he's doing in the offseason, leading the workouts. It feels like right guy, right time, right place. There's no college quarterback (even Luck) I'm "drooling over" because I like McCoy and I'm pulling for him.

Is it a done deal? No. I agree with EE: We'll have to watch and see. But I'm very hopeful.

No need to invent a foil here. I'm bullish and have been for some time. That said, I'm there with Alo, Leg, and some others: The arm is an issue. Can it be overcome? Yes, and I actually believe it will be. Seriously. I think in this offense and with a certain improvement arc, tempered by his timing and accuracy... I think he can succeed.

That's how a quarterback drafted 84th becomes a steal and a star. Not by pretending everybody who didn't draft him in the first or second rounds (including the Browns) is stupid and blind.

But that's all blah-blah-blah and those who want to ignore the nuance of the conversation will continue to do so (as Alo has obviously caught onto). But I'm there with the "amen" too.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

When I watched Colt McCoy play for us, I saw things in a QB on the field for the Browns that I haven't really seen from MANY QB's that have worn the Brown and Orange for us over the last 12 years. He showed a natural leadership that his teammates gravitated toward. I think that's essential for a young team. He needs to know his teammates trust him and that trust is reciprocated. I think that's fair with young Colt. His decision making skills were head and shoulders above the Frye's, Quinn's and Anderson's. He makes the SMART play and he doesn't take many risks that could end up costing the team. Instead of 4-and-outs, we extended a lot of drives and fought to score points. We did not see that with Daboll's offense in 2009 when we had BQ and DA behind center.

Fact is, that was his first season, we got him key starts against some major NFL teams and that experience will serve him in this next season. I'm not worried about his arm strength or his shoulder injury which I've read has fully healed.

I like the Jeff Garcia comparison, now I don't know how many of you guys saw this guy coming up in the CFL but when he hit the NFL for the 49'ers he was already in his prime and really I think that Garcia is on another tier compared to where McCoy is now but they both scramble to make plays and they both have underrated arms. Jeff Garcia didn't have a cannon arm but he could make the throws he needed to make, that's Colt McCoy for us.

I really hate how we keep building Colt McCoy up, comparing him to Joe Montana, comparing him to Jeff Garcia, let's let Colt McCoy build his own legend. He impressed as a rookie and I have no doubts that he will continue to impress but hoping and dreaming he will grow into this legendary QB is just setting us up for disappointment. (Jeff Garcia may not be 'legendary' but for us CFL fans he's quite a big name, like Doug Flutie...)

To be honest, all you needed to do was WATCH Colt to know that we're on to something, but why we keep finding excuses to debate the matter is ludicrous to me. I know you want us to draft a 1st round QB, and you probably won't quit grinding Colt's gears until he takes us to the playoffs OR we draft that 1st round QB you so covet so he can blow up in our faces like Tim Couch or Brady Quinn did, but let's not mind that, let's bring a laundry list of 3rd round failiures to compare Colt to instead...

Good grief...

GREAT post EE! The most assinine thing written on this board is we drafted a QB in upper round 3 that doesn't have a strong ENOUGH arm. There's no spin that escapes that ignorance. I have zero tolerance toward letting that become the same dominant issue it became last year at this time.

When you really think about it - how many of the QBs that have been drafted between round one and the 7th slot of round 3 got booted out of the NFL for a weak arm? I just need 1 example and I'll be happy as a clam. Give me one name.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

I like the Jeff Garcia comparison, now I don't know how many of you guys saw this guy coming up in the CFL but when he hit the NFL for the 49'ers he was already in his prime and really I think that Garcia is on another tier compared to where McCoy is now but they both scramble to make plays and they both have underrated arms. Jeff Garcia didn't have a cannon arm but he could make the throws he needed to make, that's Colt McCoy for us.

Your entire post was good shit.

I was a huge SF fan because of Joe Montana (Notre Dame baby) so when they were going to Super Bowls I was a huge fan of thier system and their team. So when Young came along it was lightening striking twice (how he has more TD's to Rice than Montana was a shocker to me) in the same spot. Then Jeff Garcia showed up and I was impressed. I think Jeff came along at the time when all the core players were leaving, and they were losing under Marriucci. But Jeff even displayed some good stuff in Philly when Donovan went down.

So I can see the comparison, but the best part is I don't see the drama-queen in Colt that I did in Jeff. I liked Jeff, and I liked him moving the pocket. He was Steve Young'esque. Not quite as accurate or smart or well read in the offense, and made more happen with raw talent than head smarts. But he had moxie.

I think Colt can be more.

Side note: BW - you have to once in awhile post a line or two that states "I was wrong on the guy. I missed this one." Not so much 50 posts defending the wrong or rewriting history. Be human for once. I have never seen Alo go on the defensive over the SEA LB (whatshisname?).

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Flugel

When you really think about it - how many of the QBs that have been drafted between round one and the 7th slot of round 3 got booted out of the NFL for a weak arm? I just need 1 example and I'll be happy as a clam. Give me one name

But Tom that is a setup on your part.....QB's don't get booted for noodle arms because those guys are not found on NFL teams.

Oh, that was your point. Oops.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Flugel

GREAT post EE! The most assinine thing written on this board is we drafted a QB in upper round 3 that doesn't have a strong ENOUGH arm. There's no spin that escapes that ignorance. I have zero tolerance toward letting that become the same dominant issue it became last year at this time.

When you really think about it - how many of the QBs that have been drafted between round one and the 7th slot of round 3 got booted out of the NFL for a weak arm? I just need 1 example and I'll be happy as a clam. Give me one name.

Trent Edwards. True as true gets.

Who's "ignorant," by the way? It's not me, right? Is it Alo? Leg? Because not one of us said Colt doesn't have enough arm. You're actually getting pretty fucking ridiculous now, trying to make me a bad guy or something. No matter how much I like about McCoy, or how optimistic I am, you keep trying to smear me like we're running for office against each other or something.

What the fuck, exactly, are you doing? Why are you being so nasty when I've not said one single nasty thing to you? Where's your head, man? Alo said yes, arm strength is an issue for Colt McCoy. Legacy said yes, of course. That held him down in the draft. It's not one of his strengths. It isn't unpatriotic to say that. Just as it doesn't make me less of a Peyton Manning fan to say he isn't very mobile, right? Do you see what I mean now? Holy fucking shit already.

And speaking of ignorance, Colt wasn't drafted in the upper third round. It was 84th.

[Brown Warrior]

Veg, I love Alo... but he's been plenty defensive when I chickenshit him (goodnaturedly, of course) about Curry. We're all defensive when we still believe and that's cool. I'm still defensive about Alex Smith... and I'm not afraid to tell you I still think he's good.

I don't believe in Clausen anymore. I totally admitted that. Wide open. Now please, for once, kiss my ass with some red hot fucking passion for that show of humility, okay? I'm sure as fuck owed it.

I didn't like McCoy in the draft. Did it stop me from saying I thought he looked terrific in his first start? Did it? Answer me... DID IT???? No. Homey don't play that way. I had the balls to say he looked great. And I said it the next week... and the next... and I said my favorite pass of all may have been the one to Moore against the Jets.

I'm not that Brady Quinn hating dude from the old board, the DA lover. I WANT to be wrong. And on McCoy? I damn well may end up wrong and I sure as hell hope so.

Do I think he has a below average NFL starter arm? Dar. He just does. As Alo said, "Yes, it's an issue." And guess what? I think it's gonna be just fine.

I swear to God, dude. Can't we have a conversation about McCoy in 2011 without somebody pointing at the other guy and screaming "TRAITOR!!! J'ACCUSE!!!!" Questioning our fandom/patriotism?

Yikes. Sorry I'm a little heated but somebody else really, really disappointed me on here. I've let him be insulting and condescending in about five straight posts without being mean back and I'll keep it that way. But holy shit...

I'll stop. Maybe some day we CAN have a thoughtful, nuanced conversation about McCoy, his opportunity, the offense, the supporting cast. his strengths and weaknesses... but apparently not here and not now. And that's pretty fucking disappointing.

[Sez.EJ]

The year Garcia came out of the CFL and went to the 49ers.. I grabbed him in my fantasy league and won a superbowl. I just knew with the talent on that roster and how he did in the CFL it was a great match. He fell off a lot after 2 seasons.. but he already had mileage. He was a mere shadow of himself by the time he landed in Cleveberg.

* McCoy was drafted with the 21st pick in the 3rd round.

[Brown Warrior]

Garcia did have more in him when he went back to Philadelphia. He's a scrappy little cuss. I think things could've gone differently for him with a different turn here or there.

He was a Pro Bowler in Tampa, right? Seemed like his talent kept springing up.

[Alo]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

Side note: BW - you have to once in awhile post a line or two that states "I was wrong on the guy. I missed this one." Not so much 50 posts defending the wrong or rewriting history. Be human for once. I have never seen Alo go on the defensive over the SEA LB (whatshisname?).

[Enigmatic Evil]

Shep I don't mean to come off like I didn't read what you posted in here, I actually read the entire thread before posting here. To be completely candid for a moment, you just have this stigma that surrounds you and a lot of the times, not what you say, but HOW you word it really comes off the wrong way and for some of us (me) it's really hard to take that seriously. So I may have come off a bit aggressive in my post but you saw through that and knew the point I was trying to make.

I do get where you're coming from but it's the stigma of your ...aura that really drove my latter half of my post there. I didn't mean for it to come across as directly as it did at the end there.

At least you're giving Colt the benefit of the doubt, in your own way, but its just the fact that we're still having this discussion more-or-less that drove me to kind of take a shot at you in the end there. For that I apologize, it wasn't the first time and it probably won't be the last

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Great post, EE. I mean it. The last digs, I totally blow off because it was such a terrific post and I agree with every word... and because you obviously totally don't get where I'm coming from at all or that we're in practically complete agreement.

Read my lips: I don't want to start over at QB. Since the first Pittsburgh start, I've been very optimistic about McCoy. I think the WCO is absolutely ideal for him. I'm very impressed at what he's doing in the offseason, leading the workouts. It feels like right guy, right time, right place. There's no college quarterback (even Luck) I'm "drooling over" because I like McCoy and I'm pulling for him.

Is it a done deal? No. I agree with EE: We'll have to watch and see. But I'm very hopeful.

No need to invent a foil here. I'm bullish and have been for some time. That said, I'm there with Alo, Leg, and some others: The arm is an issue. Can it be overcome? Yes, and I actually believe it will be. Seriously. I think in this offense and with a certain improvement arc, tempered by his timing and accuracy... I think he can succeed.

That's how a quarterback drafted 84th becomes a steal and a star. Not by pretending everybody who didn't draft him in the first or second rounds (including the Browns) is stupid and blind.

But that's all blah-blah-blah and those who want to ignore the nuance of the conversation will continue to do so (as Alo has obviously caught onto). But I'm there with the "amen" too.