Brian Sipe Part 2

[Flugel]

LOVE this kid for the Sipe reminders. I already heard why Mike Phipps' prototypicals made him #3 overall in comparision to Sipe's alleged girly arm for round 13. Which guy became the league MVP back when DBs could mug WRs all over the field? Sipe. The ONLY time I ever saw it tough to throw in that offense was when the windchills reached 27 below zero in the windy/icy conditions vrs the raiders in January. Then again, I've seen Peyton Mannign looking that miserable outdoors in Foxborough on a cold January afternoon with 3 points to show for the day. I guess that was 3 more points than the shellecking the NY Jets gave him in their 41-0 cold weather game outside a season or 2 earlier. Anyway, check out all the identicals to Sipe McCoy displays only awaiting education and experience for new offense #2.

I forgot what it was like to see a QB hitting WRs in stride and in traffic where throws HAVE to be accurate. I can't answer for anyone else but completions in traffic the way Sipe always made them and the way McCoy brings back dejavues says strong enough. That rope to Evan Moore vrs NE was showed 3 NE defenders so it had to be toward outside shoulder or it's an interception. Would the bionic arm of Derek Anderson have yielded better results?

One thing about the 2010 season that I won't forget is the change in competitive value before McCoy injured the ankle. That stretch of games with NE, NO and taking the Jets to OT was something everyone should be excited about. Realistically, we were a Stuckey fumble at the NY 30 yard line away from finishing NY too. To get to overtime McCoy had to have the grapefruits and confidence to challenge Revis via MoMass so the throw had to be perfect or we're looking at pic 6 material. Instead it was the result mcCoy knew it would be.

YouTube - Colt McCoy Rookie Highlights

[Enigmatic Evil]

Great post flugs. I think it revolves around the fact that yes, my hyperbolic avatar aside. Colt gives me something to believe in. He plays with poise and confidence and he's shown us already that he can make big plays but the bottom line is he's going to have to grow with the team. I question Colt's growth capabilities with the meager WR corps we have. Adding Greg Little gives us some interesting options but overall I just thing a big factor in the 2011 Browns will be watching that offense grow together. Guys like Colt, MoMass, Robo coming and raising a bar compared to last year. Guys like Little and the TE, Jordan Cameron. Will they be able to contribute ala Haden and Ward last year for our secondary?

It's going to be up to more than just Colt and I hope people remember that when they start passing around the haterade.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Enigmatic Evil

Great post flugs. I think it revolves around the fact that yes, my hyperbolic avatar aside. Colt gives me something to believe in. He plays with poise and confidence and he's shown us already that he can make big plays but the bottom line is he's going to have to grow with the team. I question Colt's growth capabilities with the meager WR corps we have. Adding Greg Little gives us some interesting options but overall I just thing a big factor in the 2011 Browns will be watching that offense grow together. Guys like Colt, MoMass, Robo coming and raising a bar compared to last year. Guys like Little and the TE, Jordan Cameron. Will they be able to contribute ala Haden and Ward last year for our secondary?

It's going to be up to more than just Colt and I hope people remember that when they start passing around the haterade.

That avatar gets an A for style points. That's a good point about the receivers. Perhaps some good news comes if we try to remember what superstar RBs or WRs he had being drafted in the first 3-4 rounds of the NFL draft coming out of Texas. Was there anyone projecting immediate NFL stardom from his WR Corps? I think both Quan Crosby and Jordan Shipley are projecting #2 WR position as best case scenarios. That being the case, the WCO might emphasize strengths that Robo, Haggerty, Little and even MoMass may already have along with a QB that can elevate their performances.

[Flugel]

Do you know what else rarely happens in Cleveland's lake effect climate from like late October until as late as January? Game plans don't center around deep pases and never have regardless of who is playing QB during the teeth of winter. I think you gotta go all the way back to the Frank Ryan days when Champiosnhip Games we completed a couple weeks before Christmas to find the deep post patterns to Gary Collins.

AGAIN, it's worth remembering the Peyton Manning passing miseries and forgettable performances in January winter weather OUTSIDE of the dry, climate controlled dome in Indy. That's the one drawback from putting all the marbles into a deep passing game. Remember Dan Fouts going to Cincy's frozen below zero wind chills? HE does. I can assure you he would have loved a shorter ball controlled WCO system for weather like that.

The short passing game of the WCO originated from Paul Brown in Cleveland BEFORE Bill Walsh learned it from him in Cincy. The good news is we're finding the same type of ball control receivers out of the backfield that we had back in Mack and Byner. That was a deceptively good part of their game.

I'm getting the feelign that we're slowly getting the right blend of passing game prospects with experience. Hillis showed me ideal receiving skills. Another thing people might forget about the Lindy Infante offense Harbaugh instilled at Stanford is it values the FB in the passing game. That helps to explain why Marecic was brought in to upgrade the rock quary Vickers had for hands. I DID appreciate the blocking efforts of Vickers though.

[Riffer X]

Good stuff Flugs, this stuff would have fit perfect in the other thread we have going about Colt's noodle arm.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Good stuff Flugs, this stuff would have fit perfect in the other thread we have going about Colt's noodle arm.

Thanks! Anyway, the focus in this thread is going to be WHY a ball controlled offense via WCO will work as well as Lindy Infante's ball control- spread offense worked here. It was different than the WCO in some ways but equivalent in many others regarding what was required from the physical backs in the passing game. It's important to understand the weather has a role in this whole thing. I bet GB actually LIKED playing indoors at ATL and on the road this post season. It seemed like their worst offensive day was against Chicago as their defense needed to score a TD on the backup QB via INT for what it's worth.

For the people that weren't in diapers back in the mid 80s, Infante's offense metamorphasized from Mack and Byner both rushing for over 1000 yards apiece in 1985 to involving both guys alot more in the short passing game in the successive seasons to follow. 3 of which ended in AFC Championship appearances. Lanhorne, Slaughter, Brennan and Weathers weren't exactly speedsters but they got open and caught the ball consistently. LSU's Herman Fontenot was our 3rd down RB that was a great receiver out of the backfield. VERY fun football to observe at the time.

I liked what the 2010 videos of McCoy and Co showcased and forecasted. I definitely see why you always hoped Cleveland would draft McCoy. Just because somebody reached bigtime on Locker while Ponder went way ahead of projection - doesn't mean they promise anything better than the QB we landed in round 3 of 2010.

[Brown Warrior]

Good stuff, Tom. Loved watching the highlights. Honestly, McCoy and the WCO is MY number one reason to be excited next year, too. I've even said that before... so don't let my "concerns" about his arm make you think otherwise. I feel much better about it than I did a year ago right now.

I think he has a shot. I sincerely do. The mobility is awesome and he throws well on the run. He sticks mostly to 20 and in, but that's the WCO. He's gonna have to take some shots to keep defenses honest... and as Alo said, he does "jump ball" those throws a bit. That's the thing I'm watching for... but I'm hopeful.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Good stuff, Tom. Loved watching the highlights. Honestly, McCoy and the WCO is MY number one reason to be excited next year, too. I've even said that before... so don't let my "concerns" about his arm make you think otherwise. I feel much better about it than I did a year ago right now.

I think he has a shot. I sincerely do. The mobility is awesome and he throws well on the run. He sticks mostly to 20 and in, but that's the WCO. He's gonna have to take some shots to keep defenses honest... and as Alo said, he does "jump ball" those throws a bit. That's the thing I'm watching for... but I'm hopeful.

Thanks Shep. I think this a better direction for all future discussions about McCoy.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Flugel

Thanks Shep. I think this a better direction for all future discussions about McCoy.

Honestly, I'm not a huge fan of being told how to talk, and I'm sure you're the same way... but this actually WAS the direction of the other thread. It just went haywire. I think people had time on their hands and felt a little frisky and just went for it.

I think it was one of those "life of its own" things. I read through the whole thread looking for somebody bashing McCoy... and it simply doesn't exist. We had to dig up old stuff to try to make some sense of it. Alo said he was a little confused on how it got heated because there didn't seem to be any smoke, let alone fire!

It happens. No hard feelings. You still my dawg, dawg.

[nickers]

Great thread...I guess what it all boils down to is we all want success for our team and no matter how it comes...we want it...McCoy has been the thing I have most excited about since Bernie and the Gang. The Browns historically have been theyre best when fielding an explosive offense and a stalwart defense. I look for that to be the case with this present regime.

[BernietheKid]

Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about the Browns' West Coast fit

Published: Saturday, May 14, 2011, 11:45 PM
By Terry Pluto, The Plain Dealer

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- On some weekends, the thoughts about local sports just rain down ...

About the Browns...

1. At first, I was rather non-committal about the Browns switching to the West Coast offense. I know that Mike Holmgren likes it, and Pat Shurmur knows how to coach it. So that seemed like a plan. But then I found two fascinating articles on profootballfocus.com by Khaled Elsayed about NFL quarterbacks.

2. The first dealt with who throws deep -- a pass of at least 20 yards. Some of the Browns' recent offenses relied on a QB's ability to throw downfield. Last season, Peyton Manning threw the most times -- 95. Then came Joe Flacco and Aaron Rodgers (86) followed by Matt Hasselbeck and Drew Brees (76).

3. Colt McCoy threw "deep" 32 times, which doesn't sound like much. But he played only eight games. If he played all 16, that's 64 deep throws ... right in the middle of the pack.

4. Here's the problem: Throwing deep is not McCoy's game. He completed only 31 percent (10 of 32) of those passes, ranking him 21st of the 31 QBs considered by Elsayed. More alarming, he had 22 percent (seven) picked off, by far the highest percentage. Next was Jay Cutler at 12 percent. Seven of his nine interceptions were on those throws.

5. You can put an asterisk by some of this as McCoy had six interceptions in the final two games -- losses by scores of 20-10 (Baltimore) and 41-9 (Pittsburgh). The Browns got behind. Peyton Hillis was banged up and not running well. McCoy had to throw long to try and get the offense going.

6. But McCoy did complete 62 percent of passes in the 11- to 19-yard range. That is in the upper half of the NFL. He was at 65 percent in the 1- to 10-yard range, slightly below the NFL average of 67 percent. The point is McCoy can be an accurate passer, assuming he throws the right kind of passes.

7. Welcome to the West Coast offense, which should underline his strengths and not force him to throw deep that often. It's an offense based on short, quick passes. It is designed to hit receivers on the run and to help a QB counter a blitz.

8. Which brings up another issue -- McCoy against the blitz. According to Elsayed's article, McCoy was blitzed on 45 percent of his passes. Only Bruce Gradkowski (58 percent), Joe Flacco (49 percent) and Ryan Fitzpatrick (49 percent) faced more pressure. Against the blitz, McCoy had only two TD passes compared to three interceptions. That 2/3 ratio ranked 29th. Manning and Mark Sanchez (13 TDs, 3 INT) were the best, followed by Flacco (12/4) and Matt Ryan (14/5).

9. McCoy completed 56 percent of his passes against the blitz, ranking 23rd. The best were Brees (66 percent), Chad Henne (64 percent), Rodgers (63 percent) and Philip Rivers (62 percent).

10. Former Brown Derek Anderson ranked the worst against the blitz (41 percent) and the worst ratio (1/5).

11. McCoy ranked 14th in percentage of deep throws -- even higher than the likes of Manning, Brett Favre, Tom Brady and Ryan. That makes no sense, other than he's trying to make big plays downfield -- and doing it with receivers who are not especially fast or known as deep threats.

12. Maybe these numbers are why the Browns believe the offense will improve. Perhaps they think short routes will lead to more catches. Certainly, they will help McCoy do what he does best -- make a fast read of the defense and deliver the ball on target.

13. In this offense, the receiver needs enough strength to get off the line not be bumped around by the cornerback. Then he must catch the ball. As the Browns will tell their receivers, "We don't drop passes." Second-rounder Greg Little impressed the team at the combine and in workouts with his terrific hands, his strength and ability to run after the catch. Watching film, the new coaches really do believe that Brian Robiskie and Mohamed Massaquoi can do more in this system.

14. All of this is guesswork to an extent, but it's why they didn't spend much time worrying about their quarterback situation. Instead, it was who will make this offense work. The tight ends also are important, and they believe in Ben Watson, Evan Moore and rookie Jordan Cameron they will have more guys who can catch the ball.

15. The Browns believe the new offense has a lot of flexibility. Quarterbacks ranging from deep-throwing Donovan McNabb to the scamper and throw short Jeff Garcia have been effective. So they sincere believe they can make it fit to McCoy.

About Joe Haden...

This e-mail came from Ryan Kelber, a Brooklyn High social studies teacher:

"As I sat through an hour-and-half rain delay at Progressive Field on Tuesday night, I noticed someone familiar sitting next to me in the picnic plaza behind the Indians bullpen. It was Joe Haden.

"Dressed with a Tribe hat and a few friends, the Browns cornerback stood out with his friendliness and openness to all the fans. Numerous kids and adults approached Joe and he did not turn down one single picture or handshake.

"It was amazing to see an athlete be so friendly and responsive to fans while at the ballpark enjoying the game. He remained in the picnic and Rigid Bar area for most of the rain delay and continued to talk with fans and take pictures.

"He really represented Cleveland and the Browns well. We sometimes criticize drafting players based on character and talent, but Joe Haden showed me Tuesday night that he definitely has both."

Terry Pluto's Talkin' ... about the Browns' West Coast fit, the Cavaliers' draft options and Tribe's emerging young Michael Brantley | cleveland.com

[Sez.EJ]

it's all nonsense at this point because of the new offense. We just don't know what any of it will really look like.