Wide Receivers 2011

Brown Warrior · #49 (**permalink**) 05-19-2011

I think James Jones follows the money and the touches, honestly. His agent wouldn't have trouble convincing him that Holmgren's WCO Think Tank in Cleveland is a good place for him to become a #1. Not saying that's gonna happen, but it could.

Some national writer pointed out that whenever the cap figures settle out, the Browns will be right near the top after purging a lot of vets and generally avoiding top 10 picks (except Haden). I expect to see a lot of new guys brought in -- another right-side blocker, another WR, another DE, definitely a linebacker, and maybe a corner AND a safety.

That's seven guys... and it happens all the time, even way more. Not every single one will be a headliner, mind you. Hey, the WR might be Laurent Robinson if Shurmur likes him better than anyone who isn't Little, Robiskie, and Massoquoi.

YtownBacker · #50 (**permalink**) 05-19-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

I think James Jones follows the money and the touches, honestly. His agent wouldn't have trouble convincing him that Holmgren's WCO Think Tank in Cleveland is a good place for him to become a #1. Not saying that's gonna happen, but it could.

Some national writer pointed out that whenever the cap figures settle out, the Browns will be right near the top after purging a lot of vets and generally avoiding top 10 picks (except Haden). I expect to see a lot of new guys brought in -- another right-side blocker, another WR, another DE, definitely a linebacker, and maybe a corner AND a safety.

That's seven guys... and it happens all the time, even way more. Not every single one will be a headliner, mind you. Hey, the WR might be Laurent Robinson if Shurmur likes him better than anyone who isn't Little, Robiskie, and Massoquoi.

Problem is Shurmur hasn't seen enough of what we have to determine if he likes them or not. A big problem with with what's going on in the NFL. Shurmur will have to rely on some of the position coaches especialy for the guys who he doesn't have a lot of tape on.

I could see a veteran WR but I could also see if they want to stand pat. Besides that, I think they will bring in a DE, LB and DB. If they don't resign Womack I could see them bring in a veteran tackle for depth. I just don't see the panic to bring in another WR as much as you do. From what the FO has said, it doesn't look like they are in a panic over it either.

When you are rebuilding a complete new offense with a new QB sometimes you got to take a step back and evaluate where you are and look at developing the potential you have on the roster.

Brown Warrior · #51 (**permalink**) 05-19-2011

I honestly can't say what they think of the WRs behind closed doors. Nobody can. You'd assume they'd think they're ass meat, but maybe Heckert really means it when he says they aren't.

I'm thinking the three guys (Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur) have studied a few hundred hours of film together and formed a strong opinion. The Little pick tells you at least a little (!), that they knew we needed help. The question is how much.

YtownBacker · #52 (**permalink**) 05-20-2011

My point was, how much tape do you think they got to study on Mitchell, Haggerty and Norwood as pros.

Also, you would think they might be sitting back and saying; "we didn't throw the other guys the ball, so we don't know if they are fuckin good or not". or, maybe they are sayin; "we ran the fuckin ball and used our WRs as decoys so we haven't got a clue if they are NFL WRs or not".

Could be they might have looked at the tape and saw the guys open as we dumped the ball off under to a TE. You say bad and I say misused. Hard to give an honest critique when we only threw the ball out of necessity. Because our QB play and our offensive scheme was run "often and regular", I don't think anybody really has a good handle on what our WRs can bring to the table.

But, we will see......................................

Flugel · #53 (**permalink**) 05-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

I think James Jones follows the money and the touches, honestly. His agent wouldn't have trouble convincing him that Holmgren's WCO Think Tank in Cleveland is a good place for him to become a #1. Not saying that's gonna happen, but it could.

Some national writer pointed out that whenever the cap figures settle out, the Browns will be right near the top after purging a lot of vets and generally avoiding top 10 picks (except Haden). I expect to see a lot of new guys brought in -- another right-side blocker, another WR, another DE, definitely a linebacker, and maybe a corner AND a safety.

That's seven guys... and it happens all the time, even way more. Not every single one will be a headliner, mind you. Hey, the WR might be Laurent Robinson if Shurmur likes him better than anyone who isn't Little, Robiskie, and Massoquoi.

Ytown brings up some valid points as he welcomes concrete thinking without cement. Nobody projects that FIRST season Sidney Rice breaks out in his THIRD year any more than they projected Lance Moore breaking out in his 3rd season or so. And Miles Austin was basically just a STs guy when he came out of nowhere for his break out year. Keenan McCardell took about 6 years to frequent Pro Bowls before frequenting Pro Bowls. Hines Ward went the Miles Austin route so the WR position isn't an immediate conclusion for ANY franchise that knows what it is doing. As Ytown is trying to say. Anyway, James Jones loses reps to Jordy Nelson because he drops alot of passes and fumbles quite a bit. I think we've witnessed our share of those kinds over the years. We can go grab Quincy Morgan and Dennis Northcutt right now if that's all we want. We actually had Antonio Bryant here; but people remember all the 3rd down drops more than they acknowledged he got open enough to contribute more than 1000 yards receiving. If you drop the ball or put it on the ground with any regularity, you're gonna end up with the Braylon Edwards bon voyage salute with "DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU IN THE ASS ON THE WAY OUT!" Jones is okay but these stats aren't anything to get all fussworthy over:

Season	Team			Receiving					Rushing					Fumbles
		G	GS	Rec	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	FUM	Lost
2010	Green Bay Packers	16	3	50	679	13.6	66T	5	--	--	--	--	--	3	1

2009	Green Bay Packers	16	3	32	440	13.8	74T	5	--	--	--	--	--	--	--

2008	Green Bay Packers	10	2	20	274	13.7	46	1	--	--	--	--	--	--	--

2007	Green Bay Packers	16	9	47	676	14.4	79T	2	--	--	--	--	--	3	2

Flugel · #54 (**permalink**) 05-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

I honestly can't say what they think of the WRs behind closed doors. Nobody can. You'd assume they'd think they're ass meat, but maybe Heckert really means it when he says they aren't.

I'm thinking the three guys (Holmgren, Heckert, Shurmur) have studied a few hundred hours of film together and formed a strong opinion. The Little pick tells you at least a little (!), that they knew we needed help. The question is how much.

That's all fine and dandy if the supply cooperates with the demand. For instance, how many times has Peyton Manning been available in the draft for a team needing a franchise QB? Once right? Some people like to pretend the Ryan Leafs, JaMarcus Russells, David Carrs, Joey Harringtons, Alex Smiths, Akili Smiths, Cade McNowns, Rex Grossmans, JP Losmans, Patrick Ramseys, Tim Couchs, Brady Quinns, Heath Shulers, Matt Leinarts don't exist but they really do. That's just the QB position and the draft. However, the SAME principles apply to free agency; and as we've seen - the WRONG guys continued to get overpaid in that process.

As far as free agent WRs? I live in Nashville where they bent over for Yancey Thigpen and got ZERO. Then they did a backward cartwheel to land David Givens for mega bucks and got ZERO. They were one of 3 teams that employed Randy Moss last year and got ZERO. Miami made a HUGE fuss to bring in the domestic violence poster boy Brandon Marshall and it's not like they became any better for doing so. I'm sure there's some free agents that did okay but EVERY team that employed TO couldn't wait to be cancer-free when he left.

In 2009, TJ Howsmymazdalookin was Mr Gotta Sign so he went off to Seattle and reminded that front office why there's a movie titled Sleepless in Seattle makign him avalaible for Baltimore in 2010. Speaking of Baltimore, alot of people thought Anquan Boldin was going to make the Ratbirds the team to beat. But here's the worst numbers of his career as far as I can tell:

Season	Team			Receiving					Rushing					Fumbles
		G	GS	Rec	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	FUM	Lost
2010	Baltimore Ravens	16	16	64	837	13.1	61	7	2	2	1.0	3	0	1	1

Unfortunately, he can't play against Eric Wright every week so that 3 TD performance was a huge exception to the rule if we understand he only had 4 TDs over the other 15 games. It just seems like the NFL is more about upside, which is probably the biggest reason Phil Savage is gone. We signed a bunch of overpaid veterans with all their best work in the rear view mirror. Not every WR has the physicality of a Jerry Rice, Torry Holt, Hines Ward or TO so many that play this position hit the wall pretty fast. I think it was pretty obvious that Baltimore didn't get the Boldin that benfitted from the whole being greater than the sum of its parts in Arizona. What I mean by that is BOTH Fitzgerald and Boldin benefitted from each other while it helped to have Warner instead of Flacco. Talk about a guy being in the right place at the right time - how about Steve Breaston matching up with everyone's weakest corner on the field when they had that group in 2008 and 2009? Now many casual fans think he's a #1 WR. Remember Jerry Jones seeing 10 INTs from Anthony Henry playing as a 3rd corner? He went and overpaid him to be a #1 corner and guess what? He bought a bunch of quicksand.

Gotta be careful we don't knee-jerk ourselves right back to the Phil Savage show. His classified read: "Dear NFL vets, Are you out of gas? Do you need more $? Do you need to miss alot of practices to injury? Are you tired of working hard? Do you want to be appreciated more for what you did 5 years ago? Are you an asshole? Can you hit the QB in the weight room? If so, come to Cleveland so you can practice retirement at the very generous expense of Randy Lerner. He trusts me - do you?"

Brown Warrior · #55 (**permalink**) 05-20-2011

I would counter by saying any team could list their UDFAs and low picks and say, "But how do we KNOW we don't already have awesome receivers?" I think that's a lot more dangerous than trying to get better.

In general, it's tough to find anybody around the Browns who didn't think WR was a priority... and we did draft Greg Little in round 2, so that would seem to indicate that the Browns agree. Sobo said he's hearing the Browns aren't done and today Lane Adkins answered my question by saying the Browns are certainly not "fine" at WR. He doesn't get the sense that they feel that way about it.

And he thinks Sidney Rice would be a great addition. I agree: He's the deep guy we lack. We could say Carlton Mitchell's name, but every team has a 6th round pick or UDFA who didn't play much last year, and I doubt they're using him as a rationale for standing pat.

Here's another way to put it: I don't think the Browns are using guys like Hagerty, Norwood, or Mitchell as reasons to do or NOT do anything. They weren't valued coming out of college and they've done nothing to change that. Every team has these fringe guys with only outside shots of sticking. They rarely make personnel decisions with them in mind... unless they've shown some serious promise on the field in real games, maybe late in the year (the Bengals young WRs come to mind, yet they still drafted Green).

That's not to say the Browns don't find one or more of them "interesting." But I'm pretty sure they aren't as confident in the current WR corps as some are suggesting. We're talking about three 2nd round picks. One didn't play his senior year and the other two did almost nothing as second year Browns in 2010. It's tough to figure what team would be more interested in a Sidney Rice or James Jones than the Browns.

Again... that's not to say the Browns ARE targeting either. But if you were writing about possible destinations for either (both WCO WRs), you'd have to put the Browns at the top.

Riffer X · #56 (**permalink**) 05-20-2011

My life won't be complete until I get to meet Sobo someday.

Brown Warrior · #57 (**permalink**) 05-20-2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riffer X

My life won't be complete until I get to meet Sobo someday.

I like him because, like Alo, he's a Browns' fan AND a serious draftnick.

But trust me: We disagree on plenty, just like me and Alo. But I enjoy reading both.