Browns Offense in 2011

[Brown Warrior]

Sobo started a pretty amazing thread on OBR based on watching and breaking down a Rams-Niners game from last year. I won't lift it, obviously, but he made some amazing points:

- Most sets were single back "ace formations" with either two TEs (most common) or three WRs. One of the TEs was in-line, the other in motion or in the slot.

- He sees why the Browns love Cameron and Moore, along with Watson. Thinks the TEs will be a huge part of the offense.

- Blocking fullback almost doesn't exist. Totally gets Marecic pick because he can run and catch, brings another dimension.

- Tailback almost never pass blocks. Jackson was in virtually every route. Hillis fits the Jackson role to a tee, a big back who can catch.

- The WRs ran deep routes but were almost never targeted. Used mostly as "run-offs," but the depth chart at WR was really sad sans Clayton and the little fast dude they lost. Everything was VERY fast, land that back foot and the ball is out.

- TONS of shotgun, which McCoy is accustomed to. Much like the Packers, something that's evolved over time for the WCO.

- He thinks Amendola is actually UNDER-rated. Thinks he's very good and way closer to Welker than given credit. Runs several different routes, all well, not just super short stuff. Believes that's the Browns biggest missing piece.

(Maehl or Sanzenbacher anybody?)

Cools stuff. Let's talk about it!!

[Riffer X]

The PDF link below is a great resource for the WCO. It implements a ton of two back sets, and both backs can have different roles in each set, but the key point is both are options in the running and receiving game but have to be able to block. I said awhile back that Hillis and Hardesty would be a fantastic combo for this offense, sort of like Mack and Byner in the day. They are both prototypes, and neither has to be considered a "true" fullback. Marecic will obviously play a role, but he is an all around player, good for all special teams and part of the three man rotation at back---plus insurance for Hardesty.

The WCO uses lots of two back sets in lieu of a slot or TE. In many cases (and what I believe the Browns will do), they will use their TE in a hybrid slot role, hence the size mismatches of both Moore and Cameron. This is why Vickers' days were numbered the second the Browns went to the WCO with the hiring of Shurmur. He will demand too much salary at this point of his career and is a liability in both running and receiving. It's not all about hands, it's about route running and being a weapon.

There are basic alignments in this PDF if you care to look, and many institute the two back sets. A lot of it is relegated to personnel, and since the Browns have big plans for the two big backs, they will most certainly use this as a heavy part of their arsenal. The main concept of the WCO (coined by Bernie BTW), is too pressure the defense in all areas. Having two good (and big) backs, plus a good TE, really helps the rest of the receiving game. Everybody has to be accounted for, and mismatches will be available. That's why it is important to have a sharp and accurate QB who can get the ball quickly to his target. McCoy is ideal for this, and his mobility gives all sorts of options for roll outs, play actions and misdirections.

Obviously, the Browns still need another back, but I'm not too sure receiver is that much of a priority after the drafting of Little and the further maturation of Robo, MoMass, Mitchell, Haggerty, Norwood and Cribbs.

http://www.centuryin...stcoast/wco.pdf

The bolded below is a basic description of what is expected of the backs in the WCO as the prototype, and below that is an excerpt from the PDF link.

Two other positions important to the West Coast offense are the fullback and running back positions. The ideal size for the fullback position should be about six foot one inch and weigh about 245 pounds. The running back should be large enough to take punishment and retain stamina. The main goals for the fullback and running back position in the West Coast offense are to be able to block and catch. In this offense these positions also have to able to pick up blitzing linebackers. The most important value for these positions is to be able to catch. These positions in the West Coast offense will probably have more catches than rushing attempts.

Running Game
We are committed to running the football. While we will throw the ball, we are also going to run the ball,
and do so successfully.
Our running game has been designed so that we will have an advantage over our opponents. We will,
through play calling and practice, create conditions under which we will run the football. To do so, we will:
• Make use of formational variations.
• Use motion and shifting to force desirable defensive adjustments just prior to the snap of the
ball.
• Package running plays with appropriate play action passes.
• Use 'special' plays that take advantage of defensive commitment and aggressiveness.
Additionally, we will do four things to ensure our running plays will be successful:
• Secure a numerical advantage at the point of attack.
• Create good blocking angles.
• Cause the defense to hesitate in reading the play, and react more slowly.
• Slow support of the defensive backs.
As with our passing offense, we have several different packages, or types of running plays. They are:
1. Base Runs- Plays that can be used in nearly any down and situation, from any location on the field.
These running plays are the core of our ground attack.
2. Nickel Runs- A series of runs from three and four wide receiver formations that are designed to be
used against nickel and dime defenses.
3. Short Yardage Runs- Our short yardage (second, third and fourth down and two or less) running
plays.
4. Goal Line Runs- Runs that we can run from inside of the opponent's five-yard line. They are similar
runs to our short yardage plays, but feature two and three tightened personnel groups.
5. Red Zone- Running plays designed for use in the opponent's Red Zone.
6. Four Minute- A group of running plays that we will use when we enter our Four Minute offense.
Mostly runs between the tackles that are designed to keep the clock moving.

[Brown Warrior]

But Riff, what Sobo was pointing out is that the Rams had Karney but did NOT use a lot of two-back sets under Shurmur's guidance. He preferred "ace sets," with either three WRs or two TEs, usually the latter.

Our depth at TE starts making sense knowing that we'll often have two from Watson, Moore, and Cameron on the field.

I'm not saying Shurmur will do exactly what he did last year, but I think it's more to the point than the WCO on the whole. For instance, the WCO was NOT shotgun oriented in the days of Montana and Young, but now it is.

I'd look most specifically at recent Eagles and last year's Rams for personnel packages. Not necessarily playcalling, but Sobo did say Shurmur changes things up a lot, spreads on first down, etc. They threw a ton, just never deep.

He also said Bradford didn't look very accurate deep, either.

[Riffer X]

He was running off what his personnel was, that's all. Don't read too much into it, when you have two backs like Hardesty and Hillis, rest assured there will be numerous formations for them. Marecic will fit into the equation and be a monster on all the special teams.

As far as Cameron goes, Moore has been hurt almost his whole career, so I think that is more to make sure they have at least one of them available.

There are a shitload of formations, and much of it can be used per the personnel you have. As long as Hardesty stays upright, he is going to get a ton of action alongside Hillis.

[slowmo411]

I swear my starters would be Little Moore Watson Hillis Marecic . A Defense will feel that for weeks!!!! Yeah theyre all alittle on the slow side but who REALLY wants to takle those guys for 4 quarters??? Teams gave up on hillis and he was the ONLY weapon we used last year.

[Brown Warrior]

I'm in the camp that thinks one of our starting WRs isn't on the team yet... but if we went with what we've got, I could see a lot of Little-Robiskie-Moore-Cameron-Hillis. Not that I don't like Watson... I just really like Moore and Cameron is the God of All Steals until he isn't (!).

Right now, Massoquoi would be the slot (in my offense), but Maehl could beat him out. We'd have 3 WRs and 3 TEs mixing in and out of formations. Fast? No. Honestly, not at all.

[slowmo411]

I like the 2 back offense better and a punishing backfield is even better add to it a couple reicers that lay the wood and DAMN i love that shit

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

- He thinks Amendola is actually UNDER-rated. Thinks he's very good and way closer to Welker than given credit. Runs several different routes, all well, not just super short stuff. Believes that's the Browns biggest missing piece.

(Maehl or Sanzenbacher anybody?)

Cools stuff. Let's talk about it!!

Landing Maehl or Sanzenbacher as an undrafted free agent would be wonderful.

Amendola looks like a hard worker that capitalized on everyone being injured. I added him in my fantasy football league that gives you 1 point per reception because he makes a ton of catches 3-4 yards from QB. But it felt like he only averaged 6 yards a catch and rarely scored TDs so I don't know if he's seen more as a fillin for injured starter than a guy you plan on starting. The BEST example of what I'm saying is that we once signed Percy Elsworth, who ONLY started the year before coming to Cleveland because the guy that beat him out had a season ending injury in the opener vrs TB. We signed him the next year thinking we added a solid starter instead of a guy that merely filled in for the injured guy who beat him out. Unfortunately, he never gave us the value of a starter and I think we signed Devon Bush mid-season to upgrade his spot. I hope that made sense when we're thinking about upside and improvement. It's VERY possible I'm underestimating what Amendola is capable of.

The difference between him and Wes Welker was that Wes Welker was an All State RB in high school. He'd sometimes line up as a wingback, which is very similar to lining up in the slot. The Miami Dolphins never really GOT IT with Wes Welker. The New England Patriots did; BUT having Randy Moss commanding alot of attention as well as a first round TE target like Ben Watson in the mix led to alot of uncontested short routes for Welker.

When I think of Wes Welker in Miami - that reminds me of how we've underutilized Cribbs to date. I don't know that he's ever gonna be Wes Welker; BUT I think the right QB, coaching and system can present the same type of positive changes for Cribbs that NE did for Welker. When I think of what Cribbs is most dangerous at - the slot should be perfect for him. It'll work better if Little becomes a serious threat and Watson plays like he did last year. I've got a feeling Holmgren has challenged Shurmur to make better use of Cribbs' assets than those before him did. I could see him and McCoy working extremely well together.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

The PDF link below is a great resource for the WCO. It implements a ton of two back sets, and both backs can have different roles in each set, but the key point is both are options in the running and receiving game but have to be able to block. I said awhile back that Hillis and Hardesty would be a fantastic combo for this offense, sort of like Mack and Byner in the day. They are both prototypes, and neither has to be considered a "true" fullback. Marecic will obviously play a role, but he is an all around player, good for all special teams and part of the three man rotation at back---plus insurance for Hardesty.

The WCO uses lots of two back sets in lieu of a slot or TE. .

I'm glad you posted this. We look like we drafted to use the Rathman and Craig backfield setup SF had when Holmgren was there. SF always had good TEs like Russ Francis, John Frank and Brent Jones so we drafted Jordan Cameron to learn from Ben Watson and Evan Moore. We MIGHT even try to turn Evan Moore back into a WR like he was at Stanford. He'd be the Dwight Clark good size target unless that's the hope for Cameron.

I'm really hoping Hardesty comes back healthy. Aside from how hard he runs, one of his most intriguing qualities was his receiving skills out of the backfield. I kind of feel bad Vickers has a rock quarry for hands because that makes his services obsulete in this offense.

[nickers]

Originally Posted by Flugel

I'm glad you posted this. We look like we drafted to use the Rathman and Craig backfield setup SF had when Holmgren was there. SF always had good TEs like Russ Francis, John Frank and Brent Jones so we drafted Jordan Cameron to learn from Ben Watson and Evan Moore. We MIGHT even try to turn Evan Moore back into a WR like he was at Stanford. He'd be the Dwight Clark good size target unless that's the hope for Cameron.

I'm really hoping Hardesty comes back healthy. Aside from how hard he runs, one of his most intriguing qualities was his receiving skills out of the backfield. I kind of feel bad Vickers has a rock quarry for hands because that makes his services obsulete in this offense.

I thought about the very same thing about Evan Moore and it really makes sense, But Jordan Cameron intrigues Me a bit...Gonna be exciting to see how it all shakes out.

[YtownBacker]

All may be well and good if we were experiencing a normal season in the NFL. But, because of the labor issue and the possibility of a very short preseason or even a loss of a few games, things will be very different this year.

Guys like Little and Cameron will have to learn on the run, FAs in skilled positions may not be added as they would during a normal preseason. There's a big learning curve with new coaches and a new offensive system so throwing all new bodies in might not be the prudent thing to do.

That said, a lack of developmental time will hamper Little and Cameron. Personally, I don't expect them to be big contributors in game one. Hell, they aren't even signed yet. Little isn't even going to work out with the offensive guys under McCoy. I'd expect Little to come on strong but his contributions will be limited due to his inexperience as a WR and his lack of playing time. Cameron is too raw and won't see much time unless there are multiple injuries to the position.

Like it or not, unless camp opens on time, Robo, Momass and Cribbs along with Watson and Moore will be the main receiving corp. Mitchell should get a long look and might even be splitting time with Little to begin with. Haggerty and Norwood will get a look because they are hear. One might make the team and one definitely be on the practice squad.

Sorry, but you just can't keep looking at this year the same as years in the past. Inexperienced rookies, no matter how big the upside, will be playing catchup all season. Teams will be less likely to let veteran skilled position players walk because of this crunched scheduled. FAs might be more likely to resign with their old teams because of the uncertain labor situation and a crunched FA period. Once the lockout is lifted the clock will be ticking and players will want to get into camp and get going. There won't be much of a courtship from teams who want to hit the ground running from day one.

Now, positions like, DL will be another story. They can slot right in without much of a learning curve. I can see some FA movement with the non skilled position players, but think the skilled guys may just want to get in and play and look to see what FA will be next year.

As much as I would like to upgrade our teams offense, I think we will be playing with what we have. I also think the new players ramp up time will be compacted and they can't be counted on to contribute right away.

[Brown Warrior]

Good points, Y. I was reading around yesterday and I'm kind of into Sanzenbacher over Mahl. Dane ran a 4.52 at his Pro Day and "caught everything," according to Brandt.

Tom, I felt the same way about Amendola's stats, but Sobo was doing the eyeball test and thinks he's a very talented kid. He isolated on him and says he's faster than you think and runs good seam routes in addition to the short stuff. Problem is... they only threw to him on the REALLY short stuff, because Bradford seemed to have been brainfucked into short drop, plant, throw, no exceptions.

He sounded surprised because, like me, he thought Amendola was just a lucky guy in the right sitch. But his college numbers do beg to differ.

Sanzenbacher seems like that guy to me. I still don't get how he isn't a 5th round pick in a WCO league that needs those guys. He had a terrific senior year and a great pro day. But it happens every year. Nobody thought the LSU kid Tolliver would go undrafted either.