3 Week Trend Promising Good Fortunes if Healthy in 2011

[Brown Warrior]

Tom, I think you can go a little over the top at times... but I still appreciate your crazy-ass loyalty to anybody who wears an orange helmet. You defend them like your puppies... and that's nice.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Tom, I think you can go a little over the top at times... but I still appreciate your crazy-ass loyalty to anybody who wears an orange helmet. You defend them like your puppies... and that's nice.

Now that's the pot calling the kettle black......................or however that saying goes.

You make me laugh Shep. Like your Mr. Innocent bystander who never goes controversial or crazy ass loyal for every blond haired surfer QB from California or any for any WR not on the Browns roster.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Now that's the pot calling the kettle black......................or however that saying goes.

You make me laugh Shep. Like your Mr. Innocent bystander who never goes controversial or crazy ass loyal for every blond haired surfer QB from California or any for any WR not on the Browns roster.

Dude (said on purpose), I appreciate the effort to consistently take the side of anybody opposing me ever, and your diligent if dull consistency in doing so... but that made no sense and in this extreme case I think you know that as well as I do.

I make an effort in all debates here to remain reasonably civil and avoid going nutty or shitty. You appreciate that even if you're forbidden by some strange code to never, ever admit it.

(Seriously... you're getting too predictable. Chime in and surprise me sometime with, "Shep's doing a good job of keeping his cool here." I actually expect something more like that from you, not this droning pile-on puke. It's beneath you.)

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Greythan

Flug's, don't read anything more into my post beyond what I wrote. I'm not proposing that MoMass is not a valuable piece. I was simply making the point that he himself has some room to grow before we can tag him as a legit, productive NFL WR. I think its likely he can be coached up to it, but his mental lapses last year went beyond the "young WR" category.

This is yet another example of a player that needs to be in Berea working and not at Colt's camp while the owners/players hash out the billions. sigh

Actually, I think we had some common ground in that. I got a little pissed about the McCoy stuff and you are right that you should be able to voice your concerns about something that worries you.

I just know how Shep can be when he wants to prove something - we'll start hearing McCoy;s arm can't throw a ball 15 yards deep in a thread about Defensive Tackles or about the strike or about RBs or about WRs or just about any topic. You weren't on the board when we drafted Frye and the alternative was a Trent Dilfer Panic Attack instead of a passign attack.

There wasn't 1 single thread where Shep could avoid tellign everyone Frye gagged him and it got so redundant. I'm seeing this sneak up on us. It was the same exact way way where he was reelign some people in talkign like I he wanted to see him do it but he just doubts he can because he doesn't have the arm strenght to last in the NFl longer than 3-5 months. To be honest, it was NEVER arm strength that got Frye keeps Frye in the league as a backup QB. It was holding onto the ball and reading the field too damn slow. Indecisiveness allows defenders to jump routes and that's what haunted Frye.

Man, we were reading conclusions like if it wasn't Holmgren that wanted McCoy drafted - he would have never made it out of preseason employed by the Browns. THAT is the ridiculous stuff I'm talking about Grey. And I don't see you being that close-minded. As soon as he saw you agreed and then Matt Williamson wrote an unfair article, I found something VERY similar written about Rodgers when he was about to go from 3 year backup to starter. I PERSONALLY don't think any guy that gets drafted has an arm too weak to make it in the league. I think vision and ability to see the field as rapidly as the speed of the game commands a QB to do so is what makes or breaks a QB. Guys like Brady Quinn that can't speed read are indecisive and their routes get jumped and people question the cannon.

Anyway, you are right that I shouldn't have jumped all over your opinions so I'm sorry about that. And Shep? I like him much better when his record isn't skipping on 1 thing that hasn't even played out beyond a promising rookie campaign. My BIGGEST WORRY is there will be a late announcement that there will be a season and a new offense will need to be installed in 2 weeks for alot of young players vrs doing it the right way with OTAs and a training camp with double sessions and then a preseason. It's not like we have a ton of seasoned vets in the WCO when we're looking to Little, Robo, MoMass, Haggerty and Mitchell. Cribbs never played WR in college so it's not like he's as seasoned as some think he should. There's alot of inconveient reality colliding with what looks like an evitable lack of prep time for the system to take off right.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Tom, I think you can go a little over the top at times... but I still appreciate your crazy-ass loyalty to anybody who wears an orange helmet. You defend them like your puppies... and that's nice.

Shep,
That's just it - how many times are you gonna say McCoy can't throw a ball 25 yards? And then you turn it around when I say we heard you the first 400 times enough to know we need to move on from that 1 point. I'm reacting to your repetition.

And you protect your puppies too like Alex Smith right?

I don't know what to make of your insistence to tell everyone you can in every thread Mccoy just can't throw 25 yard passes well enough to get excited about and then you make sure you say "but I'm really rooting for him." That seems like a HUGE conflict of interest for you to root for someone that you perceive to have your biggest pet peeve. If it wasn't huge - you wouldn't point it out everywhere you can.

I'm doing alot of reacting to this because it's everywhere. I disagree and I think you're being as unfair as you felt that one author was being about another one of your puppies Aaron Rodgers.

[Brown Warrior]

Tom... seriously... nobody here or anywhere else but you has said (or said someone said) that McCoy can't throw 15 yards, now 25 yards.

That's a childish discussion style, to ask, "But why do you support butt rape? Do you support it a little or a lot? In public or just in private?"

Just have the grownup conversation or don't. I'm not gonna take it personally either way but it is silly as shit. Like, "Tom, why do you insist that Colt McCoy visited the Virgin Islands and now they're just called The Islands? Why do you say that over and over and over?"

In the end, you're just typing off into space because I really don't know how to reply.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Dude (said on purpose), I appreciate the effort to consistently take the side of anybody opposing me ever, and your diligent if dull consistency in doing so... but that made no sense and in this extreme case I think you know that as well as I do.

I make an effort in all debates here to remain reasonably civil and avoid going nutty or shitty. You appreciate that even if you're forbidden by some strange code to never, ever admit it.

(Seriously... you're getting too predictable. Chime in and surprise me sometime with, "Shep's doing a good job of keeping his cool here." I actually expect something more like that from you, not this droning pile-on puke. It's beneath you.)

That makes about as much sense of most of your posts.................

Mr. I Never Say Anything Wrong, who always respects everyone's opinions and treats all other posters with respect, Are you fuckin kidding me with the selfrightous BS. I can't believe you, of all people, are telling someone that they constantly take the other side.

As civil as I can say it.................... you live in a fantasy world. You constantly take the opposite side of me, Vegas, Tom, Rif and Sez. As a matter of fact you take the opposite side of almost everyone just to be you. Besides, your opinions make it easy to take the other side, because they ar usually the right side.

Give it a break ......................dude.

[Brown Warrior]

You don't believe that, Y. You know I go out of my way to praise your posts and tell you when I agree with you. I've never taken a side just to be against anybody. And I haven't said anything remotely outlandish in any of our recent conversations.

Whatever. I'm wasting words because you didn't believe anything you typed anyway. Carry on, have at it, etc., etc.

[Sez.EJ]

Originally Posted by Flugel

Some valid points and I LIKED the way you worded most of it except that last sentence above. If you've been following my message in all the threads we got going - I think there's ALOT to the WR position especially in a division that has Safeties like Ed Reed and Polamalu with some aggressive passes rushed (and a LeBeau zone blitz that confuses vets like Anquan Boldin). I thought some people were blaming the QB for Boldin's not looking special vrs Pitt. That said, that's a guy who really MISSED Fitzgerald beign a solid #1 so he got some favorable matchups. His numbers went down quite a bit in 2010, to 7 TDs (3 of them vrs Eric Wright in 1 game) and under 1000 yards receiving.

In one of the 5 other WR threads going on right now, I put up how lost OTHER WRs like Sidney Rice, Miles Austin, Lance Moore, Vincent Jackson were their first 2-3 years. I actually showed their stats because there's TONS to learn at that position. We don't seem like we have alot of guys interested in what happened back before 1999; but if anyone is - ever hear of Keenan McCardle? He didn't blossom until about his 5th NFL season and then there was his teammate in Jax Jimmy Smith that got CUT by Dallas and BOTH made the Pro Bowl for Jax. Another guy that played in Cleveland was a journeyman Reggie Rucker that playede briefly for Dallas, NY Giants and NE before coming to Cleveland and lookign like a solid starter many here have fond memories of. AGAIN, there's alot to it. Right QB, right experience, right place, right time, right sysytem, right teammates and then he's a big play guy here averaging over 20 yards a reception one year with 8 TDs.

I WILL say, if we have the talent to make MoMass the #2 WR (instead of the guy drawing Revis) like he was with AJ at the UGA - I think you'll see quite a difference. I think the QB makes quite difference in emergence. See young Indy Colts and Marques Colston emerging early. Then see Sidney Rice not having his first good season until Brett Favre arrives. I think the system coming will spread people out horizontally to test some alot of aggresive blitzes and make them vulnerable to giving up a zone. Every blitz opens up a risk I've never seen us able to take advantage of to date. The WCO attacks every aread of the field mid to short range.

Understanding Lance Moore could have been Miles Austin if our franchise wasn't impatatient - I'm saying it's too early to give up on MoMass. I'm not gonna twist people's arms to agree. If you don't want to see what I'm saying - you don't have to. Let's not act like MoMass came to a utpopian passing game and he's been THE anchor either. That's my point of the whole thing - it's premature to give up on MoMass and let me add Robo. He started turning heads late. If Greg Little is able to be a #1 WR or just a huge playmaker that commands attention - MoMass and Robo will inevitably draw easier matchups. When NY sticks Revis in front of MoMass - WHO are they saying is Cleveland's BEST WR on the field? They seem to think Rex Ryan knows what he's doing on that side of the ball. The BEST part? McCoy and Revis didn't give a rat. They scored right on Revis Island to erase the late deficit.

I think Momass has more potential than Robo.. I believe he can be an explosive player. He needs to put in a lot of practice time and start looking like a real WR this year or he may not see year 4 with us. I really hope it clicks with him this year.. His rookie year he looked like he was on his way.. last year he looked lost most of the time. So with a new offense, no playbook in hand, no OTA's, and a questionable training camp... the pressure is really going to be on him.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Tom... seriously... nobody here or anywhere else but you has said (or said someone said) that McCoy can't throw 15 yards, now 25 yards.

That's a childish discussion style, to ask, "But why do you support butt rape? Do you support it a little or a lot? In public or just in private?"

Just have the grownup conversation or don't. I'm not gonna take it personally either way but it is silly as shit. Like, "Tom, why do you insist that Colt McCoy visited the Virgin Islands and now they're just called The Islands? Why do you say that over and over and over?"

In the end, you're just typing off into space because I really don't know how to reply.

Shep,
You should really listen to what Ytown is telling you. Just like Rodney King, you're not really the ideal role model for telling others how to behave. You're a Hollywood writer that creates fictional bad guys to juice up your stories. It's exactly what you're doing here. It may put the caviar on your table; but your condascending style won't work this year any better than it did last year. The debutante brat revisiting the terrible twos isn't as admirable with this peer group as you might think.

This thread was brought to our group with positive intentions for anyone that wants to get excited about their team. It got intercepted by your ego that needs to re-explain the McCoy you cut between OTAs and preseason game 2 of 2010. I'm not the one spinning my ass off into "every McCoy pass that has to travel at least 25 yards looks like a kite but I LOVE the kid now." There's 2 videos I shared on one of the last few pages of the Sipe thread showing 2 passes over 30 yards that turned into long TDs where the receiver gained seperation via the accurate throws ahead of them on both occasions. If either floated, neither scored. Sorry. I use film while you parrot your favorite McCoy critics. It's what you do. Now, you're typing this new thesis about 25 yards in almost every thread you can find since Matt Williamson printed what you've longed for.

Your true colors about owning wrongsies appeared in the Alex Smith arguement. And just remember, I wasn't the one that got his walking papers for unacceptable behavior in here at this time last year. That was you - remember Buttercup? You power spun that into "25 bad guys are ganging up on me - help me Alo!" But I WILL admit it was adorable watching you invent the Barking Hard Mafia that attacked you completely unprovoked - allegedly. And don't go emailing Alo for help again. Be a man and own your shit. Last but not least, that shit does stink.

Have a wonderful day Pumpkin!

[Brown Warrior]

I skipped your post, Tom. Peace. Let's have fun, Cucumber.