A Look at the Cap Numbers

[Brown Warrior]

Good stuff, Tom. I honestly don't think Carolina will bring in another quarterback with Clausen and Newton, but maybe I'm wrong. Clausen had a pretty tough situation and I think he'll end up a competent backup and spot starter. I don't buy that he's already toast at all. He's still a talented kid who eats and breathes football.

I do buy that Leinart goes to Seattle, a rumor that won't go away. And I don't think a guy who was as good as he was at USC and for a stretch of his rookie year just woke up one day and sucked. I didn't miss a snap of his college career... and he really was that good. I agree with you that he seemed to spiral into a less-than-attractive version of himself and, frankly, he always had that side.

Fat kid who got good looking. The worst.

[Alo]

Leinart's problem has been that he doesn't have great intangibles or physical tools. That's what distinguishes him from Cutler & Young, who have attitude issues (especially Young) but have shown the ability to carry their teams to victory.

In Arizona, Matty's inaccuracy was putting his WRs in position to get killed: it was one of his too high throws in the '08 regular season finale that got Boldin's ankle busted up. Combine that with a reportedly poor work ethic, and it's not surprising that his teammates didn't have his back.

Perhaps he's been humbled by getting cut, then failing to unseat Dan Orlovsky as the Texans' #2 QB, but it's hard for me to see much upside in his game. Hopefully, he'll surprise in Seattle or somewhere else.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Alo

Leinart's problem has been that he doesn't have great intangibles or physical tools. That's what distinguishes him from Cutler & Young, who have attitude issues (especially Young) but have shown the ability to carry their teams to victory.

In Arizona, Matty's inaccuracy was putting his WRs in position to get killed: it was one of his too high throws in the '08 regular season finale that got Boldin's ankle busted up. Combine that with a reportedly poor work ethic, and it's not surprising that his teammates didn't have his back.

Perhaps he's been humbled by getting cut, then failing to unseat Dan Orlovsky as the Texans' #2 QB, but it's hard for me to see much upside in his game. Hopefully, he'll surprise in Seattle or somewhere else.

When he was at USC, Bill Walsh called him the most accurate college passer he'd ever seen. Walsh LOVED Leinart. I doubt it just went away... but I do know he didn't look the guy he'd been before.

We'll find out about the intangibles soon. Sometimes when your toolishness gets you humbled and everybody cheers, it's something most people can't even fathom. You come out a very, VERY determined person.

[Alo]

Bill Walsh was a great talent evaluator, probably the best at scouting signal callers, but it seems like his hit rate dropped once he retired from football in '04. And that would make sense: he didn't have to hit the tape as hard when he wasn't being paid for his services.

That would explain how he fell in love with Matt Leinart and Trent Edwards. NFL scout Dave Razzano gave Leinart a late 2nd round grade, and Trent Edwards spins it like a twelve year old girl suffering from Polio.

In reality, Clausen was a better prospect than both of those guys, and I think he's got a better shot at becoming an serviceable starting QB. It's crazy to write off a quarterback after ten career starts.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Alo

Bill Walsh was a great talent evaluator, probably the best at scouting signal callers, but it seems like his hit rate dropped once he retired from football in '04. And that would make sense: he didn't have to hit the tape as hard when he wasn't being paid for his services.

That would explain how he fell in love with Matt Leinart and Trent Edwards. NFL scout Dave Razzano gave Leinart a late 2nd round grade, and Trent Edwards spins it like a twelve year old girl suffering from Polio.

In reality, Clausen was a better prospect than both of those guys, and I think he's got a better shot at becoming an serviceable starting QB. It's crazy to write off a quarterback after ten career starts.

I'm not sure what it says about me that I liked (and honestly still like) all three. Probably nothing all that good, and mostly about physicality more than anything. They just seem like quarterbacks to me, and all three showed "small space accuracy" in college. All three have some arm issues.

I continue to be a fairly lonely Leinart supporter, maybe for some really good fun watching him at USC. His accuracy was pretty nutty, and you just can't fake that. I also have a thing for guys who are deemed "dicks," because I'm a psych minor who can honestly say some of my favorite people were at least once deemed "dicks" or "bitches" by others.

I did watch Trent Edwards with the Jags and had the very undeniable sense that his arm was just way weaker than I ever imagined. I thought I saw some pop in college.

Then again, I loved that Oregon State kid, Sean Something. For about the same reasons.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

I'm not sure what it says about me that I liked (and honestly still like) all three. Probably nothing all that good, and mostly about physicality more than anything. They just seem like quarterbacks to me, and all three showed "small space accuracy" in college. All three have some arm issues.

I continue to be a fairly lonely Leinart supporter, maybe for some really good fun watching him at USC. His accuracy was pretty nutty, and you just can't fake that. I also have a thing for guys who are deemed "dicks," because I'm a psych minor who can honestly say some of my favorite people were at least once deemed "dicks" or "bitches" by others.

I did watch Trent Edwards with the Jags and had the very undeniable sense that his arm was just way weaker than I ever imagined. I thought I saw some pop in college.

Then again, I loved that Oregon State kid, Sean Something. For about the same reasons.

The key to being a successful QB at any level is how many favorable matchups all over the field are you dealing with consistently. I've seen USC games, where secondaries looked 1-2 counties away from the WRs catching uncontested passes all the way back to Carson Palmer, contininuing on through Matt Leinart and then onto Mark Sanchez. Troy Smith as a junior, had Santonio Holmes, Ted Ginn Jr and Anthony Gonzalez with Robiskie as a reserve. He didn't Derek Anderson that opportunity either - He Elwayed it. He had Ohio State fans alot more excited than Pryor ever made them.

I'm not CHANGING this criteria when I'm telling you the environment for Colt McCoy's success is incomplete thus far. There's a reason everyone keeps talkign about WR and why Julio Jones got an enormous bandwagon following the combines. McCoy didn't walk into Boldin, Fitzgerald and Breaston as a 1-2-3 matchup utopia. NOW, even though Leinart did; Warner had MORE experience with the NFL demands of speed reading the progression and getting the ball out quickly. However, back when Warner was Leinart's age - there was a reason he had to bag groceries and play in Arena Football and later NFL Europe. That was to GET BETTER for what the NFL demands of young QBs. In fairness to Leinart, the first year version of Kurt Warner didn't look anything like the one that showed up to St Louis with utlra hot targets like Marshall Faulk, Torry Holt, Ike Bruce, and Az-Zahir Hakeem. Keep in mind Warner sucked with the Giants when he had a less than steller environment so it REALLY matters more than people are willing to factor it in. On top of that, Warner played best in a dry climate of Arizona AND the dry indoors of a dome in St Louis. In NY, he learned what happens to QBs when wet footballs are in a passer's hands. Was there a QB that fumbled more than he did in NY? Weather is another element that people never factor into when they compare the indoors Peyton manning to all other QBs. But what happened in so many post seasons that team had to travel? Weather and slippery footballs intervened right?

Success/Emergence rates of young QBs happens at all different rates for many different reasons. The most important reason is the environment. WHO are you throwing to? Does the playbook coincide with the personnel? How well does the coaching staff teach the passer and receivers to work cohesively? Experience together enough to know if a Hines Ward ward turns out or in in a certain look. Chemistries are rarely ever instant unless its 4.3 speed on a 6'4" receiver that can jump out of the building with terrific hands/focus.

[Brown Warrior]

Agree with all, Tom. With this offense and this quarterback, Alo's on the money talking about short space quickness, great hands, and some YAC potential. If you can't run away from CBs, be able to bully and out jump them... like a kid with 27 reps and a 41" vert (Little).

McCoy has excellent ball placement, timing, and anticipation. He hits WRs in stride on the quick stuff and the intermediate throws (15-20 from the line). I can absolutely see why so many people talk about what a great fit he is for this offense. He also can throw without optimal set, something I heard Steve Young go on and on about while explaining one of the reasons Brady Quinn wasn't as good as we wanted him to be. He just wasn't a fluid athlete... and McCoy IS.

But this is why I'd love to see the Browns get a serious veteran who isn't in decline for the WR corps. I think Grossi is flat out NUTS for saying we have a "cast of thousands" there. We have UDFAs without a single catch, a KR who's never transitioned to being a serious WR, a couple of second round picks we hope will improve in this offense, a 6th round pick who didn't play last year, and another 2nd round pick who didn't play football at any level in 2010.

We have zero "knowns," or "provens." We could use JUST ONE!!! It's a big year for McCoy, and if we slog through a fourth straight year with the league's shittiest pass offense, I doubt Heckert's gonna say, "Remember how I told you how great our WRs are? I was kidding. They suck. It's all their fault."

That won't happen. We'll be discussing Luck, Barkley, Foles, and Fields. I'd much rather McCoy had a really promising year.