Can the Team Find a Position Fit for Cribbs

[Brown Warrior]

I'd like to find ways to get the ball in his hands... but at the same time, I don't want him taking up space at WR. He wasn't really targeted much last year in spite of being on the field quite a bit, but the reason for that seems to be he doesn't run good routes or get open.

[nickers]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

I'd like to find ways to get the ball in his hands... but at the same time, I don't want him taking up space at WR. He wasn't really targeted much last year in spite of being on the field quite a bit, but the reason for that seems to be he doesn't run good routes or get open.

Well,I expected more for a guy who played QB in college. You think he would atleast understand how to run crisp routes if not for anything else.

[Sez.EJ]

Flugel: Every one of these you name
Braylon Edwards (#3 overall)
Donte Stallworth (FA/1st rd)
Dennis Northcutt(#32 overall)
Quincy Morgan (rd 2)
Andre Davis (rd 2)
Antonio Bryant (FA/2nd rd)
Lance Moore (how quickly we forget)
Travis Wilson (rd 3)
..but for Travis Wilson..most of this list hve had fairly successfull WR careers and several pro bowls in the mix. Just because they did not succeed her does not mean they didn't learn anything here.

Cribbs has not shown he can hold the jock of any of the above names..Hey I hope it's MAGICAL year 8.. for him... I have my doubts.

Let's just say.. I don't pass up signing a free agent..because I have Cribbs on the roster.. that's insanity..

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by nickers

Well,I expected more for a guy who played QB in college. You think he would atleast understand how to run crisp routes if not for anything else.

It's kind of like how easy golf looks before one learns just the opposite. Ask Skeets Nehemiah how easy route running was even with Olympic Medal peed. Cribbs played in a college offense where the QB ran the ball so guys like Antonio Gates chose basketball instead of blocking. Therefore, like Heckert said via paraphrase here,"alot of WRs in college spread offenses don't really know how to run disciplined routes we use in the pros. This is why we have to go observe them at the combines to see if we think they can project that ability for the pro level."

To be honest Nickers, I don't see what the harm would be in seeing if Cribbs plays better WR for the NEW coach everyone felt we needed, with NEW playbook everyone felt we needed, and the NEW QB everyone felt we needed. Cribbs wasn't the only one suffering from a bad environment. We've fired everyone that people bitched about. Let's not race the 84th best player in the league out of town because we gotta hurry up and hate someone new this year already. While Hillis is our #1 RB - it won't KILL us to have 1 more training camp and September seeing what Cribbs can accomplish as a receiver. He actually had a GREAT preseason last year before leaving the opener on crutches and later in the year he got a concussion and injured the toes. That was the first season he's ever had nagging injuries so I think it ruined the momentum he had estanblished coming out of the preseason. Aside from that, didn't we also have 3 different QBs in walking boots? It's been a tough place to conclude anything better than inconclusive.

I'm not trying to be a HOMER as much as I'm trying to comfort people into the reminder of why we wanted a better environment for our young players to have a fair shot at success. We're gonna know in the first month of games if we need to transition Cribbs over to the backup RB duty you guys want for him. I think the WCO promises a receiving niche we've longed for with Cribbs. I know our snakebitten fanbase has had so much practice at he sucks and fire the bum; BUT its the time of year to get excited about what our best players overall project. Anything Cribbs has been trained extremely well for - he has succeeded at.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

Flugel: Every one of these you name
Braylon Edwards (#3 overall)
Donte Stallworth (FA/1st rd)
Dennis Northcutt(#32 overall)
Quincy Morgan (rd 2)
Andre Davis (rd 2)
Antonio Bryant (FA/2nd rd)
Lance Moore (how quickly we forget)
Travis Wilson (rd 3)
..but for Travis Wilson..most of this list hve had fairly successfull WR careers and several pro bowls in the mix. Just because they did not succeed her does not mean they didn't learn anything here.

Cribbs has not shown he can hold the jock of any of the above names..Hey I hope it's MAGICAL year 8.. for him... I have my doubts.

Let's just say.. I don't pass up signing a free agent..because I have Cribbs on the roster.. that's insanity..

And how many times have I already typed I wouldn't mind us adding Santonio Holmes or Lance Moore? That never has to mean I join you in hoping we stop trying to get Cribbs in space in the passing game. I brought up the list primarily to remind people how many promising guys came to this chaotic environment in transition (with a defensive minded Head Coach) only to have the same disappointing conclusion. I'm only wanting to see how Cribbs does with this new environment everyone has longed for.

The ONLY things I've tried to tell Shep are: 1) I doubt Sidney Rice is prioritizing Cleveland; AND 2) I don't think Heckert plans on adding a bunch of veteran free agent WRs. Truth be told, I've always felt we would add 1 guy. I suppose a 2nd wouldn't surprise me if Heckert is disappointed in the best FA he can sign at the position. Where we ALL agree is we want the passing game to improve.

The reality is Holmgren paid Cribbs to be alot more than a STs player or an occasional RB. Why do you HATE one of the only Browns the rest of the league respects? Is there more to this story? For a mellow guy, you get really feisty when people want to appreciate Cribbs and the example his work ethic sets for the younger guys coming in.

Braylon Edwards' career in Cleveland was 1 good year out of 5. That's 20% for a #3 overall pick. Plus his penis envy for Lebron James led to arrests/bar fights when he wasn't celebrating Tequila Sunrises with Stallworth. If that wasn't enough, the dumb ass ran through glass in pactice because he was a prima donna needing to show teammates special players get to run in bare feet. He missed about 4 weeks and it set the tone for the rest of his days in Cleveland as well as where football would get prioritized. Gee, why would I root for a hard working guy like Cribbs to succeed when Braylon left us with so many warm and fuzzy memories???

Speaking of Tequila, Stallworth was a 1st round draft pick - that didn't make one of these teams happy they overpaid him: New Orleans, New England, Baltimore, Cleveland and Philly. 5 consecutive uhohs = disappointing career. Andre Davis, Quincy Morgan and Dennis Northcutt did NOT have good receiving careers. You know that better than I do. Antonio Bryant has had 2 good seasons during a turbulent career overshadowed by bad attitude and injuries. His addition led our coaches to believe they could be impatient with Lance Moore. While SOME of the guys mentioned could fall back on being return guys - let's try to temember they were 2nd round draft picks and one was high as pick #32 overall. I say such a thing because Cribbs was UNDRAFTED in comparison. Not only that, unlike Northcutt - he was the best punt coverage gunner in the league.

The guy I like best in my list is Lance Moore, who we HAD here as an undrafted rookie. The premature conclusion to gift wrap him to somebody like Sean Payton for the exchange value of nothing is why I HATE people giving premature conclusions about WRs that aren't instant like MoMass for example. I think he'll be fine if we add Holmes or Moore to the lineup. It'll also make Little or Cribbs better.

You mentioned TO once - can I just ask how much better the Buffalo passing attack or Cincy passing attack got because of him? Was it worth the spread of cancer in the lockerroom and alienating EVERY QB that has ever had to deal with him? This is what Buffalo got out of a 3rd year WR from Kentucky named Steve Johnson just 1 season after TO left: 82 rec 1073 yards and 10 TDs. Just think if they kept TO - they basically had a Lance Moore waiting in the wings that that might have been sent elsewhere.

[Brown Warrior]

Oh, I don't think we'll add more than one vet, Tom. But I do think we'll add one. I just don't have a sense of what flavor or price because Heckert says we don't need anything and we're spending all $50 mill on his Mitchell boys (!).

Not sure I've EVER seen a team play a regular season with a receiving corps this young and this unaccomplished. Maybe it happens... I just have trouble seeing it.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Oh, I don't think we'll add more than one vet, Tom. But I do think we'll add one. I just don't have a sense of what flavor or price because Heckert says we don't need anything and we're spending all $50 mill on his Mitchell boys (!).

Not sure I've EVER seen a team play a regular season with a receiving corps this young and this unaccomplished. Maybe it happens... I just have trouble seeing it.

Then we've been on the same page alot more than either of us have ever thought. That's definitely cool with me.

Believe it or not, you did see young and unaccomplished in 1999 when you watched rookies KJ and Darrin Chiaverinni. We were only 1 year older in 2000 when Northcutt got added. And then we started looking to Quincy Morgan and Andre Davis. Frisman Jackson was another inexperienced alternative. We've ALWAYS had this environment while we've audtioned a ton of QBs nobody got comfortable with. That's been my point in this thread. Hard place to succeed so far.

I think we're heading into the best environment we've had. And we'll probably add 1 exciting veteran FA with upside. One more refreshing change to remind us of better projections ahead.

[Brown Warrior]

I always thought we mostly agreed on this, Thomas. And yeah, we didn't do a ton to help Couch at WR. Let's agree: When we have to reference a 1-15 expansion team, it ain't a good reference. I don't see anything like our WR corps on any contenders or on our primary competition in the AFCN.

Again... not saying 1, 2, or even 3 of the "kids" might not end up being good, still being part of the team in a couple years. But they're all hopes and dreams right now. Not one "solid" vet, let alone a really good one. And as I get more and more optimistic about McCoy in the WCO? That idea sounds worse and worse.

Again, the Rams didn't have a ton at WR even before injuries... but they did have a pretty good vet in Mark Clayton and Bradford leaned on him like crazy. Now he's campaigning to make sure he comes back. I'm guessing he runs the right routes, gets open, and catches the ball. He's no Pro Bowler, but he's a veteran with some experience and it paid off for Bradford.

Just get one of those for McCoy.

[Bronx Cheer]

@Vegas-

You made two points. First, that Cribbs wasn't tried out a WR until the last 2 years. Where do you think he was lining up in practice and camp all those years? Every special teams player also has a "position." Costanzo is a LB. Sorensen is a S. Most returners are either a WR or CB. Cribbs has been "developing" as a WR for 7 years, and only got decent enough to get snaps the last three. Isn't it funny that he only got snaps at WR once the position was decimated by Joe. J., Edwards, and Winslow leaving?

Second, as for why to trade Cribbs, to me it is getting something for him before he starts bitching and moaning. If Cribbs isn't getting offensive snaps, I guarantee he starts moaning to the press. Over half of his contract is incentives, with a large portion being receiving based.

He IS NOT a WR. If our team doesn't have the stomach to tell him that, then it is better to trade him.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

You made two points. First, that Cribbs wasn't tried out a WR until the last 2 years

Cribbs wasn't seriously given a shot those first few years. He was given a position but not a decent shot. The last 2 years we saw him actually playing the position on the field. When our WR's collectively had the fewest catches in the NFL, and Cribbs adds 23 receptions, it tells me he can play the position. If he cannot make it past this year than I am with you guys, but I still think he can play the slot. We'll all find out this season with the WCO minded HC/OC and a WR friendly offense.

Originally Posted by nickers

Cribbs has questionable hands to start with

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think he led the team in fewest drops. Also if I am not mistaken he was 8th in the league in YPC last season. Either that or YAC.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Again, the Rams didn't have a ton at WR even before injuries... but they did have a pretty good vet in Mark Clayton and Bradford leaned on him like crazy.

You do realize that Mark Clayton and Josh Cribbs had pretty much the EXACT same numbers last season, right? Might want to do some research because they both started 5 games.

And how did Bradford lean on Clayton like crazy? This kid threw for 3500+ yards as a rookie in Shurmur's offense, and 12 of those games he did not have Mark Clayton, but a group of kids nobody heard from before.

The point is we now have an offense withQB and WR as a focal point - there is NOBODY you can write off LESS than Josh Cribbs, specifically because of his YAC potential.

[Bronx Cheer]

Cribbs wasn't given a shot because he didn't show enough in practice to get on the field. Are you telling me he deserved snaps years ago over Joe J. Winslow, Edwards, and Heiden? You didn't even hear any grumblings from beat writers about "Cribbs is tearing it up in practice at WR, why isn't he seeing game time?" There was no conspiracy to delay Cribbs' development, he just wasn't impressing anybody at WR to warrant game time and was only given a serious shot once our coaching staff looked around after they cleaned house and saw zero talent at the skills positions.

YAC is easy to rack up when you are catching underneath passes on third and long. There is a reason why the leaders of that stat each year are mostly RBs and flanker types.

Is Cribbs good at running with the ball in space? Yes. Is he good at lining up outside, catching a pass, and then running with it? No.