Browns Must Sign a Defensive End in Free Agency in Order to Compete

[mikeyP]

Realistically, I like Danny Amendola at WR. Hopefully that's the guy Shurmur is talking about.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Interesting. Yeah, Holmgren actually listed WR first as a target. Also CB and DE. That said, I find it tough to believe you can't add FS to that list.

Clayton is interesting. He played really well early last year. He'd be "adding to the pile," as Heckert calls it. Y, he could absolutely be the slot.

Interesting about where our current guys fit, because Grossi's intel conflicts with Pluto's intel... but we'll find out soon enough. If we had time to get them up to speed, my outside guys would be Little and Mitchell with Massoquoi in the slot. That's the most physical talent we can get on the field all at once.

That's about what Grossi said he got from talking to team personnel yesterday. As I said before Grossi has a tendency to embellish (as does most sports writers) but he indicated that he was told that Robo, Little and Mitchell would be their main outside guys and MoMass and Cribbs would work inside. Now, we know that different formations bring different packages to the field but I think Moore will be the second TE who can slide out into the slot or the short yardage move the chains, slot guy. Sort of like JJ used to be.

How much is true or how much will change, knowbody really knows today. But it does sound reasonable, especially if they consider MoMass as their 3rd WR slot guy, that they might want to bring in a older veteran like Clayton or Santana Moss until Little can get his feet on the ground and learn how to be a NFL WR.

Going to be interesting since Shurmur has indicated that he may only be able to get part of his offense in by the beginning of the season. Thus the "we will transition to the WCO" statement.

[Brown Warrior]

Veddy, veddy interesting. Working Mo at the slot from day one is a pretty smart move. Alo pointed out that he had some of his best UGA days out of the slot. He gets off the line quick, unlike Robiskie.

I guess you'd call me a Robo Hatah, but I can be turned. I just feel like he's vanilla soft serve from a 7-11. He's "eh," or "okay." Not a lot of anything, including quick.

Little, Mitchell, and Massoquoi feel like they could grow into a formidable trio because they gots the clay, you know?

Curious to see which way we go at vet WR. Wouldn't fry my pants if it's Mark Clayton. He looked good last year and he's versatile enough to play outside or inside.

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

That's about what Grossi said he got from talking to team personnel yesterday. As I said before Grossi has a tendency to embellish (as does most sports writers) but he indicated that he was told that Robo, Little and Mitchell would be their main outside guys and MoMass and Cribbs would work inside. Now, we know that different formations bring different packages to the field but I think Moore will be the second TE who can slide out into the slot or the short yardage move the chains, slot guy. Sort of like JJ used to be.

How much is true or how much will change, knowbody really knows today. But it does sound reasonable, especially if they consider MoMass as their 3rd WR slot guy, that they might want to bring in a older veteran like Clayton or Santana Moss until Little can get his feet on the ground and learn how to be a NFL WR.

Going to be interesting since Shurmur has indicated that he may only be able to get part of his offense in by the beginning of the season. Thus the "we will transition to the WCO" statement.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Veddy, veddy interesting. Working Mo at the slot from day one is a pretty smart move. Alo pointed out that he had some of his best UGA days out of the slot. He gets off the line quick, unlike Robiskie.

I guess you'd call me a Robo Hatah, but I can be turned. I just feel like he's vanilla soft serve from a 7-11. He's "eh," or "okay." Not a lot of anything, including quick.

Little, Mitchell, and Massoquoi feel like they could grow into a formidable trio because they gots the clay, you know?

Curious to see which way we go at vet WR. Wouldn't fry my pants if it's Mark Clayton. He looked good last year and he's versatile enough to play outside or inside.

Robo got my attention last year when they started throwing him the ball. May never even be a strong #2 but he can play WR in the NFL. You never know what happens to a WR when a team puts a real number one on the other side.

Little is the key to the Browns receiving corp and being a rookie who is a raw WR makes planning difficult. If they do intend to move MoMass inside then we do need a veteran WR because you don't know if Little or Mitchell will be ready early in the season. Moving MoMass inside gives Shurmur options with his receiving group. Because he could always kick MoMass outside on any given play like he used to do in St Louis. A sot receiver that can kick outside to go along with a TE who can kick into the slot and backs who have to be respected coming out of the backfield as receivers.

All that makes those guys on the outside better because they get into mismatches and single coverages. Little is going to scare people that will make Robo much better also.

[mikeyP]

Apparently Browns are locked in on DE, Ray Edwards and CB, Jonathon Joseph from Cincy and have offered large contracts. Considering our big debate here I think we did a pretty good job. The knuckleheads in the F/A post who said we weren't going to spend, how's my Dirk taste?

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by mikeyP

Apparently Browns are locked in on DE, Ray Edwards and CB, Jonathon Joseph from Cincy and have offered large contracts. Considering our big debate here I think we did a pretty good job. The knuckleheads in the F/A post who said we weren't going to spend, how's my Dirk taste?

That was 10 times funnier than Veg's tirade... and even intentional!

[mikeyP]

Haha. Fun times. Can't wait for football though!

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

He isn't saying you don't need good CB play. If given the choice between a stud CB and an above average pass rush, or a stud pass rush with only an above average secondary you go for the latter. You want studs everywhere, but reality is in the cap and FA world you cannot have it (or keep it together for long if you get lucky).

With a stud pass rush, you can make even the best QBs hear footsteps. However, you give any NFL quality QB time to pat the ball and he will find an open receiver.

Good points Bronx. HOWEVER, what do you do for the passing games that love the quick 3 step drops and quick release from QB with the 32 year old legs of Brown and the overrated skills of Eric Wright? You get Anquan Boldin in our red zone uncontested ALL DAY to the tune of 3 TDs (comprising almost 50% of the guy's 7 TD receptions in 2010). I wouldn't know such a thing if I didn't hit us right between the lookers. The Packers had a game plan for Julius Peppers and Pitt's pass rush. Get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly so they don't matter. Once defensive legs got tired, then GB would try more 5-7 step drops from QB with their QB that has wheels to escape trouble if necessary.

If you look at the way NY booted NE from the playoffs - Cromartie & Revis took away Brady's quick throws with aggressive press coverages and an ability to stay on the hip. In doing so, alot of their dline rotation that weren't best known for sacking the QB were making Brady very uncomfortable in that pocket. I'm talkign about their lesser known guys giving Brady up close and personal punctuations of ass breath and fanny plantsies. So there's the back of formation helping the front 7 with the right guys.

Not saying I don't want a DE/pass rusher or it's not important. Obviously the ONLY time we beat Pittsburgh in the last 10-12 tries was when we sack Ben Rapen about 10 times. That said, I can't see a 32 year old corner staying on the hip of Mike Wallace when Ben Rapen scrambles for more time while I'm tired of wondering if Eric WANTS to play today or he approves of the scheme enough to get in a competitive pre-snap stance. The OCs worth their weight in craft, get this on film and why else do you suppose they send Santonio Holmes where Wright makes us most vulnerable? Because he's got the look of bad attitude making NOBODY worry about what talent gets videoed from such a disturbance. BUT, give him a corner blitz he approves of and here comes that hustle thing out of nowhere. When we're losing CLOSE games that 21 other starters are busting tail in - I feel pretty comnfortable saying we can do better than Eric Wright and Sheldon Brown at corner.

I'm very excited about Skrine and Haden; but worried about multiple reciver sets and injury.

[Bronx Cheer]

Originally Posted by Flugel

Good points Bronx. HOWEVER, what do you do for the passing games that love the quick 3 step drops and quick release from QB with the 32 year old legs of Brown and the overrated skills of Eric Wright? You get Anquan Boldin in our red zone uncontested ALL DAY to the tune of 3 TDs (comprising almost 50% of the guy's 7 TD receptions in 2010). I wouldn't know such a thing if I didn't hit us right between the lookers. The Packers had a game plan for Julius Peppers and Pitt's pass rush. Get the ball out of the QB's hands quickly so they don't matter. Once defensive legs got tired, then GB would try more 5-7 step drops from QB with their QB that has wheels to escape trouble if necessary.

Flugs, you are the king of the Strawman argument. You should work on Capitol Hill.

The discussion here isn't about what is the sure fire way to stop any offense. Stop arguing that strawman. I admit straight out there is no sure fire way short of having all-pros at every position, and pass rush is no panacea. I also admit that our secondary needs improvement.

The discussion here though is where do you get the most bang for your buck in a 4-3? Do you lean DL or CB? Are you more likely to make Sheldon Brown acceptable and the team better by adding some significant heat on the QB, or are you better off upgrading Brown and leaving the "heat" at lukewarm? (Again, "both" is the obvious preferred route, but you cannot always upgrade both).

As for combating the quick hitting pass attack with a secondary that isn't as good as your pass rush, what do you do? Well, you live with it, that's what. You do the best you can of playing press and force those three step drop throws into crowds. You get pressure up the gut to cut off passing lanes. You tell your linemen to count to four and get their hands up. You force them to march down the field at 4 yds per attempt instead of 8, and hope in the extra 5-6 plays the drive takes that you get a holding call, a turnover, or manage to force some bad throws. Most teams don't have Aaron Rodgers slinging the ball, so 3-step drops and short hitters aren't some magic potion cure-all.

Besides, as soon as you start dictating what the offense has to do to have any chance of moving the ball, you've won half the battle on D, no?

Give me a strong DL and you can find a decent number of mid-round corners that will serve quite nicely. One Jamir Miller made a bunch of schmucks in the secondary look like the second coming of the dawg pound. However, a guy like Leigh Bodden can shut down an opposing #1 (e.g., Ochocinco) yet still result in your D getting gouged through the air and ground.

[Brown Warrior]

Bronx, that was a fantastic, measured, thoughtful post. I'm sure you're gonna take heat for that madness.

I've said it so many different ways, I'm exhausted: I've never said teams should look for bad cornerbacks. That's not what Madden said. Or Jimmy Johnson. Or Tomlin. Or Brooks. Or the AFCW OC who didn't fear Nnamde as much as pass rushers. Or scads of others.

It's a matter of weight... and most NFL types would tell you to prioritize the DL and the pass rush, put your biggest chips there. Compromise a little at cornerback, not pass rusher. The front of the defense helps the back more than the other way around. A pass rusher covers five receivers while a corner covers only one (the AFCW OC's point).

We have two teams with two first round corners, San Diego and the Bengals, and neither is a pass defense force. Meanwhile, we have Pittsburgh and Green Bay who ARE pass defense forces... with Shields, Williams, Taylor, and McFadden. Because they get after the passer.

You won't get a lot of NFL types to disagree with the notion that the pass rush trumps the coverage guys as far as priorities go.