New & Improved WR Thread

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by mikeyP

Maybe Heckert and his TEAM of professional talent scouts know what they're doing more than us :gasp:

Say it aint so, lol

I've been saying that since he got to Cleveland, ask all these guys. I was on Heckerts dick nonstop last year and said it then and will repeat it now: When it comes to drafting players? He is near the top of the food chain when it comes to the draft. I'll post it up again the list of guys drafted under Heckert during both his time as GM and VP of Player Personnel . Pro bowlers are in bold:


T- Shawn Andrews
DT- Mike Patterson
WR- Reggie Brown
SS- Sean Considine
T- Todd Herremans
DE- Trent Cole

As GM-
DT- Brodrick Bunkley
LB- Chris Gocong
G- Max Jean-Gilles
WR- Jason Avant
MLB- Omar Gaither
QB- Kevin Kolb
MLB- Stewart Bradley
TE- Brent Celek
DT- Trevor Laws
WR- DeSean Jackson
T- King Dunlap
WR- Jeremy Maclin
RB- LeSean McCoy

That's actually a pretty good list for the four years he was GM. Keep in mind they were already a stacked roster and when the roster is built he DOES bring in free agents to top it off, so alot of these guys were drafted as rotational players and backups because that is what they needed. Also keep in mind that was his first four drafts as a GM. 13 guys in your first four drafts(Including the abysmal 2007 and 2008 drafts), 8 of which are starter quality guys? Yeah....

Now look at Cleveland, we're heading into this season with four starters out of the 2010 draft(Haden, Ward, Lauvao, McCoy) and we'll be starting 5 outa this draft(Taylor, Sheard, Little, Mercic and i'm betting Jordan). We'll see how they all do although Haden and Ward are already beasts. Anyways he's getting better and better at his job that he was already good at.

So yeah, he knows alot more than any of us, he and his top notch scouting crew know their shit.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Don't love that we haven't used a couple high picks to get centerpiece players... but it's tough to knock Heckert's drafting acumen, even if it sometimes seems crazy to me at first. Taylor and Sheard are the high picks and I really haven't read or seen enough to know yet, but Little, Skrine, Marecic, and Cameron are all looking like serious contributors... in slots not known for such things.

Part of it's all the holes we have, but six guys from this draft are gonna be on the field a lot. And from last year, there's Haden, Ward, Lauvao, and McCoy... plus maybe Carlton Mitchell.

They have to actually do shit and win games, but that's a lot of guys.

Honestly man I think Heckert is doing it from the inside out and we've just gotta be patient I guess. From the looks of how he's been drafting we're hitting the trenches(Lauvao, Taylor, Sheard), the secondary(Haden, Ward, Brown, Skrine), the less heralded receiving corps(Mitchell, Little, Cameron, Norwood), the run game(Hillis, Hardesty, Marecic, Jackson) and all of that first and foremost while seeing what McCoy has.

Just observing it looks to me like the plan is to get a young, set supporting cast around young, talented guys then we'll be adding the centerpieces and topping it off. Not a bad plan except it'll take awhile. Although IF it pans out and goes smoothly? We'll be there next year. Iffin' dat dere plan comes together we'll need a #1 WR, RT, DE, SLB, MLB and FS. Whaddya know, we have six draft picks in the first four rounds and you can find 3 of those positions in rounds 2-4 pretty easily. We'll also have cap room to grab one of 'em. Just saying bro, the more I look at it and dig in? We're not as far off as we think and Heckert could be a damn genius at work here.

[DawgFan]

don't be surprised if our TE's are our top pass catchers, this year in particular. Our WR's are all relatively young, and they have been bounced from coaching staff to coaching staff, not to mention QB to QB.

But one thing they can do is clear the middle, and our TE's (Moore, Watson, Cameron) are all extremely gifted athletes that represent a HUGE MISMATCH against LB's and S's. All our WR's need to do is keep the CB's and an over the top S occupied and the TE's (and RB's) will eat up the middle of the field. Then when the S's start cheating up, a well placed call to a WR on a fade or streak will be in order.

This team may not look like world beaters on paper in the WR position, but you don't have to be as long as they can command a little respect to open up the TE/RB routes.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

Honestly man I think Heckert is doing it from the inside out and we've just gotta be patient I guess. From the looks of how he's been drafting we're hitting the trenches(Lauvao, Taylor, Sheard), the secondary(Haden, Ward, Brown, Skrine), the less heralded receiving corps(Mitchell, Little, Cameron, Norwood), the run game(Hillis, Hardesty, Marecic, Jackson) and all of that first and foremost while seeing what McCoy has.

Just observing it looks to me like the plan is to get a young, set supporting cast around young, talented guys then we'll be adding the centerpieces and topping it off. Not a bad plan except it'll take awhile. Although IF it pans out and goes smoothly? We'll be there next year. Iffin' dat dere plan comes together we'll need a #1 WR, RT, DE, SLB, MLB and FS. Whaddya know, we have six draft picks in the first four rounds and you can find 3 of those positions in rounds 2-4 pretty easily. We'll also have cap room to grab one of 'em. Just saying bro, the more I look at it and dig in? We're not as far off as we think and Heckert could be a damn genius at work here.

Just quoting myself to say i'm not saying those WILL be our needs or this or that player will ONLY fit this or that role. I realize after writing it it came off like I was writing in absolutes. Alot of different things could happen, surprises could happen and our needs could be radically different.

My point is the same though, we're building pretty much from the inside out and with those multiple firsts and multiple 4ths we're not far off. We're positioned perfectly to make a huge leap in 2012 and get this ship turned around.

[Enigmatic Evil]

BOOM! This is a money quote DF. I think that last year we had a lot of hope in Evan Moore and this year those expectations are only going to be higher. Couple that with the obvious potential of Jordan Cameron and we have a really really strong TE corps. I wish either Moore/Cameron would develop more traditional TE's skills. I don't know how good Cameron is as a blocker but we need to be prepared for life after Benjamin Watson. I think that the TE's are going to draw a lot of attention because Watson was basically our primary target last season, that should give the wide-out's some room to make plays...

It gets me all hot and bothered just to think about the 'untapped potential' HOLMGREN'S WORDS!

Originally Posted by DawgFan

don't be surprised if our TE's are our top pass catchers, this year in particular. Our WR's are all relatively young, and they have been bounced from coaching staff to coaching staff, not to mention QB to QB.

But one thing they can do is clear the middle, and our TE's (Moore, Watson, Cameron) are all extremely gifted athletes that represent a HUGE MISMATCH against LB's and S's. All our WR's need to do is keep the CB's and an over the top S occupied and the TE's (and RB's) will eat up the middle of the field. Then when the S's start cheating up, a well placed call to a WR on a fade or streak will be in order.

This team may not look like world beaters on paper in the WR position, but you don't have to be as long as they can command a little respect to open up the TE/RB routes.

[Brown Warrior]

Two more things to keep in mind about Shurmur and the "inside" or "slot" receiver...

- Andy Reid just called Avant the best inside receiver in the NFL. He's become a pure slot... and that's the offense Shurmur was raised in as a QB coach before his brief stint in St. Louis.

- ESPN reports that the Browns were interested in Derrick Mason (37)... presumably as a slot.

Add this to Pluto, Grossi, and Walker saying they've been told the Browns were sniffing around for veteran slots... and then Shurmur's gushing over Jordan Norwood? Plus his known man love for Amendola?

One of the guys on the roster will be a prototypical slot even though that position won't be on the field all the time (because of our unique group of hybrid TEs). Shurmur will want it in the arsenal.

Jordan Norwood needs to healthy up and go back to making Shurmur smile because it's there for the having. In a way, that puts Robiskie, Massoquoi, and Mitchell in competition, because only one will be seriously relevant (along with Little, Norwood, and all those TEs) and then one more would be the fourth WR.

Noodling further, I think Carlton Mitchell is gonna be that fourth WR because of his size/speed upside and Heckert's love for him. And that might just put Robiskie and Massoquoi in competition for a roster spot.

I don't see an offense lacking explosion and separation doing anything but continuing to force feed Greg Little into the starting lineup.

[Greythan]

All this discussion of Cameron's potential while only having 16 catches in college may not be relevant at all.

Antonio Gates didn't even play college football. (Crazy athlete, told he probably couldn't cut it in the NBA)

He was certainly bigger at 260# but otherwise there's certainly a track for Cameron to run on that leads to success as an NFL TE.

[Brown Warrior]

Originally Posted by Greythan

All this discussion of Cameron's potential while only having 16 catches in college may not be relevant at all.

Antonio Gates didn't even play college football. (Crazy athlete, told he probably couldn't cut it in the NBA)

He was certainly bigger at 260# but otherwise there's certainly a track for Cameron to run on that leads to success as an NFL TE.

Absolutely. Cassel didn't throw in college games either. At USC, you're practicing with a lot of NFL caliber players in an NFL caliber setting. It isn't like he didn't run a few thousands routes.

Cameron could outrun or outjump Gates even in Gates' prime. The clay to work with is serious, which is how a guy gets drafted early in round 4 with no body of work.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by Greythan

All this discussion of Cameron's potential while only having 16 catches in college may not be relevant at all.

Antonio Gates didn't even play college football. (Crazy athlete, told he probably couldn't cut it in the NBA)

He was certainly bigger at 260# but otherwise there's certainly a track for Cameron to run on that leads to success as an NFL TE.

Good points. Actually yesterday I remembered Heckert had discussed Cameron in the post draft conference after we drafted him so I went back and listened again and he basically said the same thing, that the 16 catches didn't mean much and that there's been plenty of other examples such as Gates. He also said and we fans tend to overlook it because we're not scouts being paid to watch NCAA ballgames for 10-14 hours per day and breakdown every player but just because he only catched 16 passes doesn't mean he didn't play. According to Heckert back then Cameron was playing regularly and running crisp routes, getting off blocks, getting separation ect in College, he just wasn't getting thrown to. Plus his raw freak Athleticism on top of it. "The kid is a straight up Athlete and football player" as Heckert put it.

So far from reports those 16 catches aren't relevant at all. Shurmur had a smile the other day when a reporter said Cam was a nice surprised and said something to the effect of "a surprise for you maybe." Cam was a pure sleeper in the draft and the only question seemed to be his catching ability and he's already answering that question by catching everything thrown his way.

I think our scouts nailed this pick and Jordan Cameron is destined to be a sleeper talked about for years to come.

[Bronx Cheer]

Does Cam have the speed to play WR, or is he strictly a hybrid matchup TE?

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Two more things to keep in mind about Shurmur and the "inside" or "slot" receiver...

- Andy Reid just called Avant the best inside receiver in the NFL. He's become a pure slot... and that's the offense Shurmur was raised in as a QB coach before his brief stint in St. Louis.

- ESPN reports that the Browns were interested in Derrick Mason (37)... presumably as a slot.

Add this to Pluto, Grossi, and Walker saying they've been told the Browns were sniffing around for veteran slots... and then Shurmur's gushing over Jordan Norwood? Plus his known man love for Amendola?

One of the guys on the roster will be a prototypical slot even though that position won't be on the field all the time (because of our unique group of hybrid TEs). Shurmur will want it in the arsenal.

Jordan Norwood needs to healthy up and go back to making Shurmur smile because it's there for the having. In a way, that puts Robiskie, Massoquoi, and Mitchell in competition, because only one will be seriously relevant (along with Little, Norwood, and all those TEs) and then one more would be the fourth WR.

Noodling further, I think Carlton Mitchell is gonna be that fourth WR because of his size/speed upside and Heckert's love for him. And that might just put Robiskie and Massoquoi in competition for a roster spot.

I don't see an offense lacking explosion and separation doing anything but continuing to force feed Greg Little into the starting lineup.

By listening to Shurmur the plan was to look at MoMass and Moore/Cameron in camp as their slot guys. MoMass in the 3 WR sets and Moore as a TE who can go in motion and split out from the TE position. Also MoMass being able to slide outside when the set calls for it.

Shurmur does seem to want that good solid slot guy and I think MoMass was going to be him. Because of his injury Norwood has been given a lot of work there. Norwood's position on the team may well rest with the health of Cribbs and MoMass. As for Mitchell, he hasn't had a very good camp and seems to be dropping in the depth chart. He really needs to have some very good days to open some eyes or Norwood could very well take his job.

I don't think there's a chance of Mitchell taking a position on the roster from Robo or MoMass if both are healthy.

[Brown Warrior]

Think I'm starting to agree with you. Might be Little, Massoquoi, Robiskie, Cribbs, and Norwood. Someone on the practice squad, maybe Haggarty.

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

By listening to Shurmur the plan was to look at MoMass and Moore/Cameron in camp as their slot guys. MoMass in the 3 WR sets and Moore as a TE who can go in motion and split out from the TE position. Also MoMass being able to slide outside when the set calls for it.

Shurmur does seem to want that good solid slot guy and I think MoMass was going to be him. Because of his injury Norwood has been given a lot of work there. Norwood's position on the team may well rest with the health of Cribbs and MoMass. As for Mitchell, he hasn't had a very good camp and seems to be dropping in the depth chart. He really needs to have some very good days to open some eyes or Norwood could very well take his job.

I don't think there's a chance of Mitchell taking a position on the roster from Robo or MoMass if both are healthy.