New & Improved WR Thread

[Riffer X]

Please use this as the new WR thread. The other was closed as it was getting too long.
Thanks

[DawgFan]

Michael Crabtree
2 years
26 starts
Best Season
YDS: 741
REC: 55
AVE: 13.5

Not bad...but top 10 pick good???

Dez Bryant
1 year
2 starts
only 12 games due to injury
YDS: 561
REC: 45
AVE: 12.6

And he is in trouble off the field with 2 lawsuits, trespassing, even Deion Sanders his mentor has bashed him on the airwaves.

So, injury and off the field issues...was he worth a top 10 pick.

Just saying that the big sexy top WR is not always the way to the SB.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by DawgFan

Michael Crabtree
2 years
26 starts
Best Season
YDS: 741
REC: 55
AVE: 13.5

Not bad...but top 10 pick good???

Dez Bryant
1 year
2 starts
only 12 games due to injury
YDS: 561
REC: 45
AVE: 12.6

And he is in trouble off the field with 2 lawsuits, trespassing, even Deion Sanders his mentor has bashed him on the airwaves.

So, injury and off the field issues...was he worth a top 10 pick.

Just saying that the big sexy top WR is not always the way to the SB.

Mike Wallace is better than both knuckleheads squared; because he won't hold his team hostage to off-field dramas and DIVA crap.

And then there's the 7th round kid (Steve Johnson) from Kentucky in season #3 sporting 10 TDs 82 rec and almost 1100 yards in his first opportunity after TO left. VERY promising and now the task is to reduce the concentration lapses/drops.

Greener grass can be crab grass. It'll be interesting to see if the most celebrated WR in Texas Tech history can put together a better career than lesser known TT guys like Wes Welker and Danny Amendola. I WILL say that anyone that came out of the mad scientist's program has learned how to be efficient in space once they had the right opportunity.

It's often said your BEST personnel gurus do their magic AFTER the picks of the litter. We had a TON of great players in the 80s from the backend of the draft. Sipe was a 13th round pick that made himself into a MVP caliber player and had a nice run of 3-5 years inspite of some Favre-like INTs here and there. Back then, QBs had to be far more accurate with bump and run all the way down the field. There's a gorgeous highlight of Sipe throwing a TD strike in stride to a WR's outside/sideline shoulder with Mel Blount grabbing jersey from the inside shoulder . Pretty freakin impressive for a guy told not to bother trying to play in a league where only men can play. Getting back to my point that missing on Mike Phips at #3 overall after tradign Paul Warfield to have that high of a pick - you better believe it's a GREAT thing there was a such thing as a Brian Sipe for this franchise. I've never seen more exciting football than the teams he and Kosar led here. Speaking of which, Ernest Byner was a 10th round pick from East Carolina.

My favorite first round of alltime was Clay Matthews and Ozzie Newsome in the same 78 draft. As this ship starts cruising in the right direction - we have 2 first round draft picks next year to put a little giddyup on it all.

[YtownBacker]

If McCoy develops into our franchise QB it may be time to use one of those picks on a WR. But, you don't add the glitter until you have something to put it on.

QBs make WRs and not the other way around. AZ. was in trouble of losing Fitzgerald because they didn't have a QB who could get him the ball.

The basic fact is that WRs don't want to play in a place that doesn't have an established QB or at least a promising QB playing in scheme specific offense.

[Brown Warrior]

No doubt the QB makes the WR more than the other way around, but it's still symbiotic. They aren't apples and apples any more than Rich's linemen (!).

The Cowboys let Williams walk because Dez Bryant is getting the ball. He was "the best player on the field" when healthy. He's a serious, SERIOUS talent, a young T.O. His questions are about health and maturity. He showed up for camp, has kept his nose clean, and insists the Cowboys will "have no regrets." We'll see. He was a knucklehead in the offseason.

He's better than Crabtree is virtually every physical way... and that's before Crab's foot comes up. Wasn't as crazy about him.

Adkins is pretty well fuming about the WRs now. As not to break rules too completely, I'll paraphrase:

- WR area is puzzling. Lack of movement personnel wise is confusing.

- Glimpses of ability, inconsistency is "staggering."

- "Far from sold on this group." Like some of what I see from Little, Mitchell and Haggerty. I think Massaquoi has the ability to play a role.

Note that he didn't mention Robiskie. When he wrote about the entire group's inability to separate, he was talking about Robo. He'd alluded to it elsewhere, so I'm not gettin' crazy here.

That said, I'm cheering these guys hard because I don't think we're making moves. The brass really want to know what we have and THEN might add a veteran later. I'm about as vexed as Adkins because after 8 days of camp, nobody else is really seeing what Heckert insists is there.

With strengths at OL, RB, and TE, I'd sure love to give Colt the benefit of the doubt with a full deck. I'd like our QB situation to be clear one way or the other come next April.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Note that he didn't mention Robiskie. When he wrote about the entire group's inability to separate, he was talking about Robo. He'd alluded to it elsewhere, so I'm not gettin' crazy here.

From what I hear, Robo runs the best routes in camp. Very crisp and clean, with good timing with the QB. I haven't heard much about ANY WR getting separation on a regular basis, which is pretty common when you're in camp for 5 days and learning this new installs.

[mikeyP]

What I've read on Robo so far is he is an excellent route runner and can get open when the D is in Cover 2 but can't get off the line quick enough in bump and run and has a hard time getting open in man coverage.

Anyone else read that?

[Vegasdogg]

Yep I heard that.

[DawgFan]

Guys (and Gals), the WCO is all about having several different types of WR's that can force defenses into mismatches. It is about quick hitters and crossing routes against man and bump and run, and intermediate routes like what Robo is excelling at against cover 2 and similar defenses.

We have quick guys, we got long guys...and if you remember right the BEST WR EVER was a 'not very fast, not very tall' WR in a WCO that just knew how to catch the damn ball.

I am not calling any of our guys Jerry Rice, but I am saying, the WCO is friendly to guys who don't fit the norm for WR prototypes.

[Brown Warrior]

As Alo has pointed out (and Adkins and Kirwan and Grossi) is that Robiskie is neither long fast nor short quick. He doesn't get off the line well, a problem in a WCO where things happen fast. He loses speed in and out of cuts.

Bottom line: He's an easy cover. He can't beat man coverage.

That's not a good thing at all. He's a disciplined route runner with good hands. And at the end of those disciplined routes a DB knocks the ball down because he's an easy cover. And keep in mind that nobody's ever covered him with their #1.

Massoquoi is the more talented of that year's second rounders and the guy I'd keep in hopes that he can become a #2 or even a slot. Of course, nobody really gives a shit what I think, but Little, Massoquoi, Mitchell, Norwood, and Haggarty would be my guys if I got to keep five in addition to Cribbs. Drop Haggarty if I get four.

We need to break out of this Groundhog Day thing about WRs not being able to separate and get open. Of Norwood, Shurmur said, "He separates. And he's not just quick, he's fast." The knock on the guy was that for a slot, he was just so-so in both areas. That's not what Shurmur's seeing. And by saying that about Norwood but not Robiskie? Seeing last year's film and knowing that "separation" is a HUGE word for the WR corps in Cleveland?

Speaks volumes.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

As Alo has pointed out (and Adkins and Kirwan and Grossi) is that Robiskie is neither long fast nor short quick. He doesn't get off the line well, a problem in a WCO where things happen fast. He loses speed in and out of cuts.

Bottom line: He's an easy cover. He can't beat man coverage.

That's not a good thing at all. He's a disciplined route runner with good hands. And at the end of those disciplined routes a DB knocks the ball down because he's an easy cover. And keep in mind that nobody's ever covered him with their #1.

Massoquoi is the more talented of that year's second rounders and the guy I'd keep in hopes that he can become a #2 or even a slot. Of course, nobody really gives a shit what I think, but Little, Massoquoi, Mitchell, Norwood, and Haggarty would be my guys if I got to keep five in addition to Cribbs. Drop Haggarty if I get four.

We need to break out of this Groundhog Day thing about WRs not being able to separate and get open. Of Norwood, Shurmur said, "He separates. And he's not just quick, he's fast." The knock on the guy was that for a slot, he was just so-so in both areas. That's not what Shurmur's seeing. And by saying that about Norwood but not Robiskie? Seeing last year's film and knowing that "separation" is a HUGE word for the WR corps in Cleveland?

Speaks volumes.

You are right about a couple of things. First Nobody really gives a shit about what you think because it is a broken record and your opinion is based solely on what you have read and you have embelished that. Everyone is not saying Robiskie is too slow and not quick enough. Only Little has come close to matching his performance in this camp so far. Norwood has gotten a few accolades because he is an unknown and Shurnur is basically saying "hey watch out we may have a player here". Robiskie has lined up as the #1 from day one and has had a very solid camp. That said, we can agree to disagree on Robiskie and take a wait and see approach.

Funny that MoMass is at the head of your class when he hasn't even put pads on yet or run a route. You don't have a clue whether he'll line up in the slot or outside. But, I think you are right about him which doesn't mean much because you think they all suck as NFL WRs. MoMass worked out this winter with Fitzgerald and Johnson and Fitz said this guy is going to have a breakout year. They worked or getting in and out of routes and adjusting to the ball in flight. He said MoMass, if put in a position to be successful will be a star in the NFL.

As much as the press like to play up rookie and unknowns in camp, Mitchell isn't having a very good camp. He's stiff and thinking too much and isn't getting separation. Norwood has played well and Haggerty has played well but reality is that between those three one will make the team if everyone is healthy.

As of today, Robo is the starting outside guy. Hard to tell who the other outside guy will be because MoMass hasn't practiced and Little has been inside and outside. Cribbs is the #4 guy and I'd have to say Norwood and Haggerty are fighting for the other spot. There's a long way to go in camp and I think Mitchell will step up but he's stalled with all the new terminology of the new offense. I've been told that the reason he didn't get on the field last year was that he had a hard time getting all the plays down.

Mitchell could be one of the most talented but he isn't taking it to the field. Robo may be the least athletic but he may be the most consistent and productive guy in camp. Somebody is going to have to take his job and the only guy coming close to doing that is Little.

Little is going to be something special but he isn't going to wake up tomorrow like you want and be Julio Jones. He has to pay his dues and learn to be a NFL WR.

That is camp today. Things could very well change and two of the young bucks make the team but it will have to play out over the preseason games. Your vision all the way from California may be some what disrupted by the clouds. You may miss a very healthy competition and if you continue to close your mind and not hear what is really happening it will be a shame. You may end up right about the WRs but you shouldn't speculate reading a few biased reports.

With that, none will be worth shit if Colt McCoy isn't successful. So, like you have said a 100 times and I agree with you. QBs make WR. There is no more truthful fact in football.

[Brown Warrior]

Dude, seriously? Do you really need to say something shitty to someone you talk with so much? Would you like a guy like that? Would you want your kid to grow up to treat people like that?

What insult were you responding to here? Or was it just mean and unprovoked? Are you proud of it? If so, what kind of therapist do you plan to visit?

C'mon, Y. Nobody thinks that's cool. You need to grow the fuck up and stop it. I don't do it to you. I'm turning the other cheek over and over because if we both act like blowhard mouthy bitches it's gonna melt down here. You've had your turn and it's over.

Stop. Now.