Browns vrs Green Bay Unofficial Offical Thread

[Flugel]

Folks,
Like a complete knucklehead, your buddy Flugel is way too excited for the preseason opener that will be televised on the NFL Channel on Saturday, August 13th at 7:30pm ET. I'm back to believing in Santa Claus even when I know a fat guy can't fly in the sky behind Rudolph before metamorphsing into Paris Hilton at every chimney entrance.

Decaff outlook: there hasn't been OTAs for playbook install as we face the Superbowl Champions that perfected the playbook in 2010 and post season of 2011. This could look like aqs bad as Sadaam's 68 year old security guards vrs the American troops. OR, we could be lining up correctly and showing some degree of chemistry from the Colt McCoy get togethers and sensible playbook installs that 2 weeks of training camp can only allow for early game plans.

What I want to see is the FUNDAMENTALS looking good more so than the new installs looking like they have 10 years of practice behind them. Gotta evaluate what's reasonable and understand what got handcuffed by the lockout. My hope is that EVERY week provides the necessary learning experiences that will get us ready for Sinsintucky week 1. The good news is they are just as young at QB and on the perimeter with a new playbook install process as well.

Where we should look good is running the ball. I'm also excited to see if we can stop the run. Last year, Mike Mccarthy told the commentators the goal of 2010 was get the ball out of Aaron Rodger's hands quicker. Guess what's going to be challenged more than the pass rush? Our corners because that's what a 3 step drop passing game attacks first and foremost. This was not a good game for Sheldon Brown last year so let's hope those 32 year old legs look like they can hang for what's ahead.

I'm sure the Josh Cribbs watch will be every bit as intense as the Robo watch. That said, it'll be fun to see what everyone brings to the new offense. Clay Matthews is going to challenge us and I think they like to line him up over the RT quite a bit if I remember the Superbowl correctly. We'll know right away if right is right or right is wrong pertaining to the protection on that side of formation.

If the Pack decides to run the ball, we'll get to see how well Taylor impacts things. I hope his presence makes D'Qwell alot less blockable than I've seen him to date vrs the point of attack. I want the majority of his tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage in lieu of the pursuit downfield at the back end of plays. He's fast so he's good at the backend of plays BUT when the aervage play lasts 3 seconds or so - we need him QUICKER in pre-snap diagnostics/instinct. I REALLY want to see the D'Qwell Jackson I thought we were getting on draft day. To be honest, I haven't yet. When I see him looking more like Mike Johnson or Pepper Johnson than Wali Rainer - I'll be satisfied. If he's getting blocked, it means his instincts are disappointing. As a former OG from the stoneage, trust me when I tell you that instinctive LBers are the toughest ones to block at any level. The 1st thing I noticed about Bowens replacing him inside was that DBow could slam shut a 3rd and short and other short yardage situations like you want your ILBer doing. I don't think I've ever seen Jackson relevant in short yardage or goal line defense. The GOOD NEWS? He's a hard working kid that can CHANGE his pre-snap disgnostics in the film room to take that confident first step every play. It's doable folks.

[Bronx Cheer]

Originally Posted by Flugel

If the Pack decides to run the ball, we'll get to see how well Taylor impacts things. I hope his presence makes D'Qwell alot less blockable than I've seen him to date vrs the point of attack. I want the majority of his tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage in lieu of the pursuit downfield at the back end of plays. He's fast so he's good at the backend of plays BUT when the aervage play lasts 3 seconds or so - we need him QUICKER in pre-snap diagnostics/instinct. I REALLY want to see the D'Qwell Jackson I thought we were getting on draft day. To be honest, I haven't yet. When I see him looking more like Mike Johnson or Pepper Johnson than Wali Rainer - I'll be satisfied. If he's getting blocked, it means his instincts are disappointing. As a former OG from the stoneage, trust me when I tell you that instinctive LBers are the toughest ones to block at any level. The 1st thing I noticed about Bowens replacing him inside was that DBow could slam shut a 3rd and short and other short yardage situations like you want your ILBer doing. I don't think I've ever seen Jackson relevant in short yardage or goal line defense. The GOOD NEWS? He's a hard working kid that can CHANGE his pre-snap disgnostics in the film room to take that confident first step every play. It's doable folks.

I've never liked Jackson much, so I'm not holding my breath. If he can't fill the gaps playing behind two NT types, then he isn't fit for MLB. If he has trouble in the running game, perhaps they'll swap him and Gocong, but then we'd be swapping one problem (stopping runs up the middle) with another (stopping passes over the middle).

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

I've never liked Jackson much, so I'm not holding my breath. If he can't fill the gaps playing behind two NT types, then he isn't fit for MLB. If he has trouble in the running game, perhaps they'll swap him and Gocong, but then we'd be swapping one problem (stopping runs up the middle) with another (stopping passes over the middle).

I was never a hugh Jackson fan either because I thought he was mismatched into the 3-4 defense. I always though he was a perfect fit as a 3-4 MLB or WSLB.

I guess I,m going to find out if he was mismatched or if he was actually just average and the scheme doesn't matter.

BTW, I did like the pick when they originally took him in the 2nd round. But in the 3-4 he just couldn't get off the blocks of those guards and got caught up in traffic a lot. I hope this scheme fits his skill set better. He is aggressive and runs to the ball well so I do really want to see how he does.

I also want to see who they put in at MLB when they take him out after a quarter or two.

[Bronx Cheer]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

BTW, I did like the pick when they originally took him in the 2nd round. But in the 3-4 he just couldn't get off the blocks of those guards and got caught up in traffic a lot. I hope this scheme fits his skill set better. He is aggressive and runs to the ball well so I do really want to see how he does.

He's not a blazer, and the next fullback he meets in the hole and the next block he sheds will be his first. I think he'd do better at WSLB where he'd have more space and time to use his smarts to gain angles on pulling Gs, etc.

I guess this is why I find it such a headscratcher that we didn't try to bring in a new starter at LB.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Bronx Cheer

I've never liked Jackson much, so I'm not holding my breath. If he can't fill the gaps playing behind two NT types, then he isn't fit for MLB. If he has trouble in the running game, perhaps they'll swap him and Gocong, but then we'd be swapping one problem (stopping runs up the middle) with another (stopping passes over the middle).

You've seen the exact same guy I've seen to date. I'm stunned they want him in the middle. I'd put him outside where he's only responsible for a 3rd of the field.

For whatever the reason, every new staff thinks what I thought of him on draft day. And then his significance dissipates into making the majority of his tackles at the back end of plays in pursuit rather than any place close to the line of scrimmage. There's a reason the defense started getting off the field as soon as Bowens replaced him in 09. In a game where the avergae play can go anywhere from 2-3 seconds - first step instinct means alot more than top end speed at least from the LBer position. Ray Lewis ran very disappointing 40s so he slid to the back end of round 1 because he was only 6'0" tall like D'Qwell. He's alot thicker and stronger; but way more instinctive at the pre-snap diagnosis and 1st step to follow.

Doesn't matter what I think and who agrees with me though. They're counting on him so I'm gonna root for him to make it happen. If it does, I'll put on my village idiot hat and own this. I still have the west side of my mouth where I can say I love his work ethic and hustle. If he uses the film room right, he can get a better jump on tendencies for various downs and distances.

[Brown Warrior]

Huge DQJ fan. Super quick, flows to the ball, very sure tackler, and also picked off 4 passes in that 154 tackle year. He's been our best player on defense so far in camp, according to reporters AND players (Fujita). He's active as hell.

He'll be the leader of the defense, I think.

[DawgFan]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Huge DQJ fan. Super quick, flows to the ball, very sure tackler, and also picked off 4 passes in that 154 tackle year. He's been our best player on defense so far in camp, according to reporters AND players (Fujita). He's active as hell.

He'll be the leader of the defense, I think.

BW, I agree. I think that DQJ was out of his element in the 3-4. In the 4-3 he will have two huge DT's protecting him so he can use his speed to get to the edges and cover the TE's/Slots as they come over the middle.

My only concern with him is that he doesn't tear another pectoral.

[Brown Warrior]

Agreed. For me, it's about his health. Mangini fans, remember that he showed up and instantly made DQJ a captain, called him the leader of the defense and a possible Pro Bowler. He loved the guy, said he popped out on film like crazy.

I agree that he's almost the prototypical 4-3 MLB, like a healthy Nick Barnett. If he's healthy (!). I could see a TON of tackles.

[Flugel]

Originally Posted by Brown Warrior

Agreed. For me, it's about his health. Mangini fans, remember that he showed up and instantly made DQJ a captain, called him the leader of the defense and a possible Pro Bowler. He loved the guy, said he popped out on film like crazy.

I agree that he's almost the prototypical 4-3 MLB, like a healthy Nick Barnett. If he's healthy (!). I could see a TON of tackles.

You always told us Mangini was on crack. Like I said, the brass is counting on Jackson so I hope he's more than Wali Rainer this time around. Tackle volumes from an ILBer can be extraordinarily large if the defense never gets off the field while the weakness inside is getting exploited/picked on unmercifully. I easily noticed in 2009 when Bowens replaced Jackson that the ILBer position was making more tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage. The upgrade was also significant in slamming shut short yardages. The location of where a ILBer makes the majority of his tackles usually tells the story on their diagnostics and instincts. If replays shows him consistently getting blocked by a big ugly at the location of his pre-snap stance - he's more apt to make most of his tackles in pursuit 9-25 yards away from the line of scrimmage. That looks alot more like a #20 than a #52 so far. I got too spoiled watching Mike Johnson and Pepper Johnson play ILBer here to celebrate anything less. Hope it changes for Jackson; and it's possible if he starts knowing every opponent in the film room like Ray Lewis does.

The biggest difference in Jackson and Bowens that jumped off the screen to me was the 1st step instinct. I've seen Bowens solo tackle a 3rd and short for no gain and/or a loss, which I've never ONCE seen from Jackson since he's been here. We've seen 2 Bowens INTs just last year going the distance because of that instinct thing making him able to defend the pass. You'll notice the time of possession shifted BIGTIME to the favor of our offense in cohoots with specifically when Bowens replaced Jackson in 2009. That ain't possible if we aren't getting off the field like earlier in the season.

AFTER draft day, I've never confused Jackson with Ray Lewis. BEFORE draft day, I thought he was the second coming. When I make bigtime predictions for a player - TRUST me when I tell you that I want to join you in celebrating he's Superman.

[Enigmatic Evil]

I am looking forward to the game as a first-hand basis to see what we have. It's a pre-season game so I'm not expecting the Browns to light it up but I just want a shot to see what this team has and where we may need to improve. I don't want to get delusions of grandeur of this team just yet. I'll save that for Week 1 just like everyone else. I want to see why Heckert's got a raging one for Carlton Mitchell and Jayme Mitchell and I want to see why Daniel Wolf's been raving about Norwood and Mitchell as well. I want to see if Mitchell's the real deal or not.

[Brown Warrior]

It would make the sun bust through those dark clouds if Mitchell could get on the field and contribute because he has serious speed. I keep reading that Little and Norwood can separate, too. I want WRs to GET OPEN this year, give Colt a window.

Adkins says Mo's injury is a big pain in the ass because Shurmur (and company) need a couple starters to separate from the pack. As we've said here a dozen times, Watson, Moore, and Cameron are gonna make it so only a few WRs see much field time. A third WR (presumably a slot) will see the field less because of those guys.

Little and Massoquoi would seem to be those guys... but we don't know that for sure yet. Absolute dream would be Mitchell really "getting it," and we could start our two big, fast guys on the outside, Little and Mitchell, and totally change the complexion of our passing game.

[Riffer X]

Hate to break some hearts here, but Alex Smith is playing a ton with the ones in different situations. He is going to be involved quite a bit in this offense.

I bring it up because I don't think anybody besides myself and a couple others have even brought his name up.