McCoy’s fresh start invigorates Cleveland

[Sez.EJ]

If there was not enough proof Mangini was destined to get fired... What coach does not work to develop a 3rd round pick. Even if you don't expect him or want him to play that year. He's not a 6th or 7th rounder.. He was a 3rd rounder...3rd rounders get reps in practice.. ALL qb's get gameplans.... With Holmgrens love of deveoping QB's..that may have been insulting enough in itself to puch Mangini out the door....but we all know there was much much more to it.. This is just another nudge that got him closer to the door IMO.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

What coach does not work to develop a 3rd round pick. Even if you don't expect him or want him to play that year. He's not a 6th or 7th rounder.. He was a 3rd rounder...3rd rounders get reps in practice..

Sez, he was 3rd string. He isn't going to see much time or reps. 3rd pick or 7th pick, he is 3rd string. I realize a competetive player like Colt is sour on the fact that Mangini handled him differently than his HS and Texas coaching staff, but I see nothing out of the ordinary in the way Eric handled him. Eric may have been less communacative and responsive by design, but whether we like it or not that is Eric's style. Be ready. He tested Colt on many occasions in front of the team (naming other players, where they played college ball, what their position was on this team, what their responsibility was on ST's --- those tests Eric had were pretty cool) and was always pointing out what a leader he was. I think Eric might have a different road to success (that I somewhat disagree with -- somewhat!) but the 3rd string QB is the 3rd string QB. He is Ken Dorsey.

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Riff, I don't agree with everything in your post, but that was damn well written and I do agree it is time to move forward. I defend Eric in different ways than you do because I liked him, I just wasn't sold. I just like Holmgren and Heckert's system more.

Good post dude.

---------------------------

I cannot wait to watch Eric on ESPN. I used to play his pressers over and over and over. I like A LOT of what he had to say about football. Disagreed with A LOT of what he did on Sunday's. But the dude is a genius, and loves this game. He gets super mad props from me for that. I sell shit for a living. He does what I want to do for a living, and is considered an expert. Much respect.

[Sez.EJ]

I hear ya..but in this NFL..even your 3rd string should get a handful of reps with the starters.. How many teams easily use 2-3 QB's during the season due to injury..especially teams that are not very good seem to go through them more.. We being the poster child for that... a smart coach learns from the past.. ones that do not... are no longer here.

[YtownBacker]

Originally Posted by Sez.EJ

I hear ya..but in this NFL..even your 3rd string should get a handful of reps with the starters.. How many teams easily use 2-3 QB's during the season due to injury..especially teams that are not very good seem to go through them more.. We being the poster child for that... a smart coach learns from the past.. ones that do not... are no longer here.

Usually the 3rd string QB is running the scout team. They are running the other teams defense and I don't think it's uncommon to give them the game plan until they get the scout team plays down. The 3rd team QB is usually inactive.

It's especially not a big deal if the 3rd string QB is a rookie who isn't intended to play. IMO this is much to do about nothing but some beat writer trying to make a story about nothing.

[TheBestPlayersPlay]

Originally Posted by YtownBacker

Usually the 3rd string QB is running the scout team. They are running the other teams defense and I don't think it's uncommon to give them the game plan until they get the scout team plays down. The 3rd team QB is usually inactive.

It's especially not a big deal if the 3rd string QB is a rookie who isn't intended to play. IMO this is much to do about nothing but some beat writer trying to make a story about nothing.

Agree.

For those who like to use revisionist history, I'd suggest reading this & this.

The witch hunt is over folks ...you got what you wanted.

A solid foundation has been laid ...now it's time to build on it. Thanks Eric.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

The witch hunt is over folks ...you got what you wanted.

There are 6 people who know WTF you're talking about, TBPP. We got what you wanted? We got what we wanted? Cool, I love how I don't have any witch chasing me...

[Vegasdogg]

I.......got what ..............I want.....because a solid foundation has been laid.

[golfer704u]

Originally Posted by Riffer X

Good reading from everybody. My thoughts on this are that my thoughts are not important because we need to move forward. It reminds me of when the ABJ interviewed me for the Ravens/Dildofer Super Bowl. I told them i didn't really care what the Ravens did, I was worried about the Browns here and now.

The bottom line is EM was brought in before Walrus, so it was a total screwup of philosophical differences. EM inherited a mess, I think everybody knows that yet it gets glossed over (maybe those administrative folks needed tightened up too). When I hear references to record etc., I have to shake my head. EM had to do a lot of dirty work, he had to cleanup the country club diva attitude left over from Camp RAC 'n ROLLS, plus he had major input into the everyday running of the franchise with little to no guidance.

He installed discipline, got bodies in here to compete and lead by example and otherwise transformed the team into a competitive unit after a rough first 12 games. Seems like people have forgotten about last year, but this team was playing really tough until the injuries hit. The stats weren't there, but the team played hard and the fans were behind them big time.

Part of the problem was EM knew he had to try to win now, and that made things a little tougher to manage trying a rebuild (like we are now---suppsedly) and trying to keep his job. Not sure how he was supposed to be pleased that they used a third rounder on a QB that his President mandated would not play at all. In other words, he got no value to help him last year from that pick. First off, I don't believe that article much at all and don't understand the need for it. It looks like just another shot at EM and he's not even here anymore, but it is typical and doesn't surprise me.

I told everybody that Colt was going to be the third team QB, which means you get very little reps and are the scout team QB. It was a redshirt year, his job was to develop his mechanics, get stronger and run the scout team. That would not have changed unless we had two QB's go down, and he sure didn't look under prepared to me against Pitt. I think this is a bunch of hosrseshit and serves no purpose. By all accounts that I knew, Colt and EM were pretty tight. Guess what, third team QB's don't get much love from any coaches when they are rookies, that is the NFL. This is a business, first and foremost, and EM had plenty to worry about besides needing to coddle a rook. Wasn't that Haskell and Walrus' job?

Walrus talks out of both sides of his mouth, but I think for the most part he is a good dude and honest as can be in that position. All EM knew was that they went and got him Jake and Wallace to save his job with and was told Colt was his scout team QB, which BTW, Colt showed he could play while doing that role.

I don't think there were any conspiracies here, just a bunch of good football men with differing philosophies. I do think they all respected one another and basically agreed on most things such as personnel and the draft. EM got a shot to do it with his offense, but it was not there yet in terms of what he wanted to accomplish. We went through three QB's last year people, and played with a shit right side of the line the last six games. There was work to be done yet in the building process, but EM was trying to manage games to keep his job.

I prefer this WCO and really like Shurmur, I am totally behind him. He is a cool dude, sharp as a tack, good with the media, played the game as a center at MSU and comes from great lineage although he is his own man.

EM's time here was not a waste folks, he inherited shit and we are not starting from square one. We are primed and ready going forward with a good FO and solid foundation. I think we can compete this year and will surprise, but injuries will be the KEY factor. You see how easy it is to get young fast, but EM didn't have that opportunity. He cleaned house, got some picks, brought in guys to fill out the roster who could hold their own and tried to win. Nobody can say they know how he would have fared as a coach if given the time to finish the job. Belichick didn't win until year 4, and even then he was not a popular figure in Cleveland.

It's all water under the bridge now, it is time to look forward and I think we have a lot to look forward to. I'm excited!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Jax Dawg]

Originally Posted by Vegasdogg

I cannot wait to watch Eric on ESPN. I used to play his pressers over and over and over. I like A LOT of what he had to say about football. Disagreed with A LOT of what he did on Sunday's. But the dude is a genius, and loves this game. He gets super mad props from me for that. I sell shit for a living. He does what I want to do for a living, and is considered an expert. Much respect.

Veg, this part of your post was spot on, agree 100%. EM talks a good game and knows his football and will do well in the ESPN gig. I look forward to hearing what he has to say especially when they start asking him about some of his former players on the Browns. You know he won't exactly be another Gruden "I love this guy...and this guy...and that guy" but I don't think he will bad mouth anybody either because I think he wants another HC job in the next couple of years.

[King of Kings]

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

The witch hunt is over folks ...you got what you wanted.

The Media hacks got what THEY wanted, at least for now. The fans? I dunno about that, most of the "fire Mangini" pitfork crowd was built on this fantasy that Holmgren would limp his injured leg down onto the field and put the headset on one more time or the even bigger fantasy that Eric would be fired first thing in the morning and by afternoon Gruden would be at the podium wearing a Browns sun visor with his SB ring gleaming from his finger.

The fans AND media on the latter. I swear, every Browns blog or forum or news outlet out there it was deafening, thanks to Grudens kid making a comment and the media speculating people honestly thought it was a foregone conclusion that soon as the season ended Chuckie boy was taking over.

I would say that didn't get what they wanted just like those of us(in my case after the season closed and the in the moment emotion subsided) to roll with Eric one more season(at least) didn't get our way? They didn't get their way. I do wonder though, had they been told up front "hey yeah he's ditching Mangini but for another 1st time HC, the OC from the Rams who'll be our HC and OC, NOT Holmgren, NOT Gruden, and NOT Cowher" if the pitchforks and lanterns would have been put away.

That's not a slight at Shurmur. I'm giving him my support and hold high hopes he's going to turn it around but even the biggest Mangini hater you can find, if he's being honest with himself? He would have said "wait, WHAT?" at the idea of firing Mangini to make the Rams OC our HC and OC.

Originally Posted by TheBestPlayersPlay

A solid foundation has been laid ...now it's time to build on it. Thanks Eric.

I agree fully on both and thank you indeed. I'll miss seeing the guy on the sidelines for awhile and actually was hoping when Tressel resigned that Ohio State would start ringing his phone off the hook, Eric is the perfect guy to straighten out that program and recruit hardworking, good young men to play football there.

[Vegasdogg]

Originally Posted by King of Kings

I do wonder though, had they been told up front "hey yeah he's ditching Mangini but for another 1st time HC, the OC from the Rams who'll be our HC and OC, NOT Holmgren, NOT Gruden, and NOT Cowher" if the pitchforks and lanterns would have been put away.

That would mean you'd have to assume one had something to do with the other. And that just isn't the case. Now I know it is very popular amongst Mangini's guys to turn this into some kind of witch hunt and that the decision to fire Mangini was based on mob rule, but this also is not the case.

But whatever floats your boat I guess. Just because some people were correct in that Mangini was not going to survive in this regime with a second 5-11 record and an anemic offense does not mean they were the cause of his demise. The team took steps but nowhere near enough was done on Sundays.

The responsibility for that outcome lies with Eric Mangini and Mike Holmgren, not the fans or members of this board. It is ridiculous to assert that 'the pitchfork crowd got what they want." Yeah, it is our fault. Whatever.